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Interesting Puzzle

Interesting Puzzle

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BentnevolentDictater

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The following statements are 'probably' accurate as far as we know with todays level of knowledge of our universe.

1 - The Universe started with the 'Big Bang'

2 - We have measured the age of the Universe in the last few years to be approx 13.7 Billion years old.

3 - Nothing, including light and/or information of any kind can travel faster than the speed of light in vaccuum.

4 - The 'Width' of the universe is approx. 156 Billion Light Years.

Puzzle Question : How can it be wider than light can travel in the 13.7 Billion years since the Big Bang?

Hmmm... Step right up and take a shot at the answer. If you 'Know' then you know more than the best minds on earth at this point.

bbarr
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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
The following statements are 'probably' accurate as far as we know with todays level of knowledge of our universe.

1 - The Universe started with the 'Big Bang'

2 - We have measured the age of the Universe in the last few years to be approx 13.7 Billion years old.

3 - Nothing, including light and/or information of any kind can travel faster ...[text shortened]... ot at the answer. If you 'Know' then you know more than the best minds on earth at this point.
Perhaps the speed of light was faster just subsequent to the Big Bang. More generally, perhaps a different set of phyical laws governed physical processes just subsequent to the Big Bang.

S
BentnevolentDictater

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Originally posted by bbarr
Perhaps the speed of light was faster just subsequent to the Big Bang. More generally, perhaps a different set of phyical laws governed physical processes just subsequent to the Big Bang.
Hi Bennet,

That is one of the three prevailing arguments at this point. The "Most" accepted now was the most "Dispised" a dozen years ago, ie, the theory of "Inflation".

Inflation is where the laws of physics become "Quantumish" and the entire universe moves out a "shell level". "Instantly" blossoming to "much larger" size. This does account for the extremely "uniform" granularity of the universe. No other theory to date can explain why everything is so uniform. If there was a chaotic 'Big Bang'... the universe should look like Najaf. Not a fine silk linen.

Scheel
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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
The following statements are 'probably' accurate as far as we know with todays level of knowledge of our universe.

1 - The Universe started with the 'Big Bang'

2 - We have measured the age of the Universe in the last few year ...[text shortened]... w' then you know more than the best minds on earth at this point.
Do you have a web reference on the size ?

Clearly the visible universe can only have a diameter equal to two times the age times the speed of light.
But there is no need to asume that we can see the whole universe.

We can get an estimate of the size of the universe by measuring, the distance to some of the most remote visibel star and measuring the speed they travels with and their accelaration.
This "picture" of the star describes its state as it was several billion years ago.
Then we can extrapolate to where it must be today relative to earth - this way you can get a estimate of the size of a universe that is bigger than we can currently see.

S
BentnevolentDictater

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Originally posted by Scheel
Do you have a web reference on the size ?

Clearly the visible universe can only have a diameter equal to two times the age times the speed of light.
But there is no need to asume that we can see the whole universe.

We can get an estim ...[text shortened]... f the size of a universe that is bigger than we can currently see.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_mm/mr_age.html

These are just a few of them. Interesting puzzle, isn't it? I think so anyway.

An interesting "Teaser" would be the statement that "A photon of light travels the width of the universe in 'No Time At All'." This is literally true because of Relativity. At the speed of light, Time slows to nothing. A photon really does cross the universe without the passage of a singe 'Second'. From it's point of view. 🙂

Acolyte
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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
4 - The 'Width' of the universe is approx. 156 Billion Light Years.
Never heard this one before. How was this figure calculated?

shavixmir
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A mate of mine is doing research into quantum gravity and such matters, all of which are way over my head.
I'll ask him.

I'm in Germany at the moment, using a German keyboard. The z and the y are the other way around. It's truly bizarre.

Let me type that previous sentence the way I would normally, for you:

Iäm in Germanz at the moment, using a German kezboard. The y and the z are the other waz around. Itäs trulz biyarre.

f

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Originally posted by Acolyte
Never heard this one before. How was this figure calculated?
SVW gave a link But there are many links to it. Type "156 Billion Light Years" in Google and you have 1500 links.

There is a theory that can explain this puzzle.
Imagine that our universe is a part of 5- or more dimensional reality. Our 4-dimensional universe is than born on or in a 5th dimensional reality. By inflation it is possible that photons move away from us or approach us with a speed that exceeds the maximum light speed.

The easiest way to get a picture of this is to imagine an inflatable world globe. Flatlanders (2-dimensional beings, shadows) walk over this globe. They have a maximum speed of x miles an hour. These flatlanders have only knowledge of a 2-dimensional space, although in reality they live on the surface of a 3-dimensional globe. What happens when you get an inflation of the globe? The globe will expand. During this period of expansion it seems that the maximum speed of x miles an hour will increase. The flatlanders have a puzzle to solve.

The same can have happened with our universe. If our universe moves on a membrane of the 5-th dimension and this membrane expanded at the very start of universe (big bang) it will look now as if light has traveled faster than we expected. Not because of exceeding her speed limit, but due to the inflation of our universe.

Science fiction? I don't think so. According to the string theory it is most likely that our universe is part of reality that must exist of more than 4 dimensions.

Fjord

s

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Originally posted by StarValleyWy
The following statements are 'probably' accurate as far as we know with todays level of knowledge of our universe.

1 - The Universe started with the 'Big Bang'

2 - We have measured the age of the Universe in the last few years to be approx 13.7 Billion years old.

3 - Nothing, including light and/or information of any kind can travel faster ...[text shortened]... ot at the answer. If you 'Know' then you know more than the best minds on earth at this point.
sevral years ago they thought the world was flat . they got that wrong then the sun went around the world again wrong. then the big bang was thrown out, again. now they say how big the universe is , i wont be alive when they find out wrong again. but just remember a theory is untill proven wrong?

f

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Originally posted by stoker
sevral years ago they thought the world was flat . they got that wrong then the sun went around the world again wrong. then the big bang was thrown out, again. now they say how big the universe is , i wont be alive when they find out wrong again. but just remember a theory is untill proven wrong?
True. God forgot the manual 😉
So we try to find our way by trial and error.
And ... the world is still rather flat.

S
BentnevolentDictater

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I forgot to mention the "third" major theory explaining this paradox.

It is "brane" theory or the extension of "super string" theory. In this scenario, we are presented with a 'brane' as a pseudonym for a 'universe'. Strings are either "anchored" and vibrate to certain mathematical uniquness (I invented the term "quacktals" to descibe them) thus constituting all that we know of... matter, engery and forces of all types. Except gravity. It is not anchored to any particular brane. It is a string 'force' but travels from brane to brane.

In special relativity and general relativity, there is nothing that says the "container of all laws", ie, the universe, can't "break the laws" of itself. Thus at sufficient distance, as per Hubble... the UNIVERSE IS EXPANDING FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT. That is why it can go to 156 Billion light years width in only 13.7 Billion years.

In terms of the Brane theory, it doesn't matter. There are uncountable numbers of Branes and the laws of each are probably unique to that brane. The only "information" transfer between them is gravity. In brane theory, the "big bang" is done away with in favor of "the big brane wreck". Hopefully not to be confused with the Great Train Wreck of April 30, 1900 wherein John Jones (also known as Casey) killed himself on the rear end of a freight train.

A great Brane wreck gives no warning. Can occur at any 'moment'. And destroys both branes involved in the collision. And they are inevitable. Sooner of later.

Almost makes you root for Relativists, eh?

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