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Iraq - Al Qa'ida and USA

Iraq - Al Qa'ida and USA

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AThousandYoung
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The Governer of Baghdad was just assassinated and within 3 hours Al Qa'ida declared responseability. I saw it on Channel 4 News (Los Angeles Channel 4). I can't find a link yet on Google. I didn't spend much time looking though.

It seems to me that from the perspective of Iraq there are two outside agencies - the USA and Al Qa'ida - who both have the ability and willingness to violently destroy governments in Iraq that they disapprove of. I'd like to discuss what the difference between the two is. What do you think?

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DoctorScribbles
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Originally posted by sasquatch672
I will not even dignify that with a reply.
I thought it was a rather insightful observation and worthwhile question.

I asked a similar question here months ago, looking for discussion regarding the similarities and differences between the early American concept of Manifest Destiny and modern day jihads. There wasn't much participation in that thread either.

cs
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i did too! it appears to me that the biggest recruiting sergeant for al queda is the bush government. it makes you wonder how "free" the elections are going to be if and/or when they happen.

AThousandYoung
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Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I thought it was a rather insightful observation and worthwhile question.

I asked a similar question here months ago, looking for discussion regarding the similarities and differences between the early American concept of Manifes ...[text shortened]... y jihads. There wasn't much participation in that thread either.
If you wouldn't mind finding that post and bumping it, I'd like to take a look at it.

DoctorScribbles
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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
If you wouldn't mind finding that post and bumping it, I'd like to take a look at it.
I wasn't able to recover it using the Search Forums feature. I believe it was in Debates sometime during August and had Manifest Destiny as part of the title.

But there really was not much discussion worth revisiting. Most respondants didn't even know what Manifest Destiny was, and those that did said there was absolutely no comparison between it and modern jihads.

AThousandYoung
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Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I wasn't able to recover it using the Search Forums feature. I believe it was in Debates sometime during August and had Manifest Destiny as part of the title.

But there really was not much discussion worth revisiting. Most respondants didn't even know what Manifest Destiny was, and those that did said there was absolutely no comparison between it and modern jihads.
OK.

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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The Governer of Baghdad was just assassinated and within 3 hours Al Qa'ida declared responseability. I saw it on Channel 4 News (Los Angeles Channel 4). I can't find a link yet on Google. I didn't spend much time looking though.

It seems to me that from the perspective of Iraq there are two outside agencies - the USA and Al Qa'ida - who both ...[text shortened]... disapprove of. I'd like to discuss what the difference between the two is. What do you think?
The United States claims legitimacy from its history, from recognition by other nations, and from its preeminent power. Currently, as a result of recent changes in US foreign poicy, there are significant tensions between power and recognition as sources of legitimacy.

Al Qa'ida claims legitimacy from a perverse and literalist reading of portions of the Qu'ran.

Both the US and Al Qa'iad seek to bring about the destruction of the other. Both have a strong base in cultures that neither seems capable of eliminating. One declares its enemies rogues or rogue states, while exhibiting some of the behaviors that define rogue state; the other lack sufficient power to fight with weapons other than terrorism. Both employ propaganda as a key tool.

There's more, but I'm off to work.

AThousandYoung
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Wulebgr -

Al Qa'ida claims legitimacy from a perverse and literalist reading of portions of the Qu'ran.

I'd add that Al Qa'ida may also claim legitimacy from the idea that Israel stole the land that it is now on from Arabs. Otherwise I think your post is very insightful.

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DoctorScribbles
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Originally posted by sasquatch672

But you simply cannot compare manifest destiny and jihad, unless you're talking about the one as a response to the other.
The commonality I see that you did not address is that having "God on our side" is essential to both concepts with respect to justifying otherwise atrocious acts.

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Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
The commonality I see that you did not address is that having "God on our side" is essential to both concepts with respect to justifying otherwise atrocious acts.
Indeed, both are quasi-secular manifestations of religious self-righteousness.

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AThousandYoung
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Rereading the original question, here is how I read it: what differences does the average Iraqi see between the behavior of the American occupying army and Al Qaida.

Not only the behaviour, but also the justifications for the behaviour, and the characterisitics of the entities themselves which strengthen or run counter to this parallel I've suggested both from the perspective of Iraqis as well as from your perspective.

To hear the Sunnis tell it, Americans are the Great Satan and jihad is every Muslim's duty

Interesting. Why did they decide it was the U.S.A.?

But they're understandably worried about the payback that they fear the Shia community will deliver unto them when the US leaves. The Shia aren't comfortable with us either, but they like the idea of general elections so they can get their guys in.

This addresses the internal politics of the region and how they are affected by the U.S. presence. I'm more interested in how different the U.S. is from Al Qa'ida and in what respects.

Re: the Manifest Destiny topic, let's find the old thread or make a new one to discuss that if we are going to.

By the way, sasquatch672, I didn't expect such a reasonable response after your first one. I thought you'd come berserking back here with wild eyed accusations of anti-Americanism and siding with terrorists and such useless garbage. Thanks!

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