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Debates Forum

  1. 28 Jan '11 22:18
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. But then we did manage to transmit I Love Lucy to the heavens. Why aren't we receiving I Love Mork? All of these crossed my little mind in a flash of brilliance.

    The Thesis: It seems to me that no matter where we might look in the universe, and when we might look, we will find a struggle between competitors for survival. Wherever we find nerve cells, we find pain. Wherever we find humanoids, we find armies and psychopaths. Wherever we find Life, we find Death. That cycle is the reason for evolution, although evolution never seems to overcome it.

    The Assertion: If this universe had been created by some sort of deity, I would say it was very unintelligent design, especially if that creator loved its creatures. Warped, I'd say.

    The Recommendation: Not that I have a better design in mind. But if you ever find yourself about to create a universe, and the best idea you can come up with will result in this universe, I'd give you props for taking a pass.

    Have a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
  2. Standard member joneschr
    Some guy
    28 Jan '11 22:34 / 1 edit
    That's a pretty dark viewpoint. While it's true there's war, pain, violence, hatred, disease, death ... there is beauty, discovery, love, caring, birth, excitement, wonder, contentment, warmth.

    Perhaps the creator has a flair for the dramatic.
  3. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    28 Jan '11 23:13
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ...[text shortened]... ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    To sum it up: there is no God. And even if there was a God, he would obviously have to be a complete tosser.
  4. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    29 Jan '11 03:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    Try this:

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html#I, Pencil

    Then take a look around where you're sitting right now and be awed by what man has created, look at that device you tap, tap, tap on there, isn't it far king amazing, you're connected to the whole world. It might perk you up a bit, if not there are some fantastic medications available for people feeling, how do I put this tactfully, out of kilter with all that modern life has to offer.
  5. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    29 Jan '11 03:07
    Also there is a board devoted to mystical beings, goblins and santa, it's called 'Spirituality'.
  6. 29 Jan '11 05:36
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Try this:

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html#I, Pencil

    Then take a look around where you're sitting right now and be awed by what man has created, look at that device you tap, tap, tap on there, isn't it far king amazing, you're connected to the whole world. It might perk you up a bit, if not there are some fantastic medications availab ...[text shortened]... e feeling, how do I put this tactfully, out of kilter with all that modern life has to offer.
    Awe is appropriate but to be awed by what man has created is to be awed that evolution has created man. No problem there. Evolution couldn't help it, given planets in the right temperature zone. Also awe for the porpoise and bower bird. My life offers me much joy and I enjoy it. My doc would be resistant to my needing meds. Nonetheless, bio evolution pits organism against organism, and all life dies. I know religion offers pie in the sky but that's a form of medication. All I am saying is, the design, of there is one, is ultimately not evidence of intelligence and love being beamed our way.
  7. 29 Jan '11 17:29
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ...[text shortened]... ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    It seems to me that no matter where we might look in the universe, and when we might look, we will find a struggle between competitors for survival. Wherever we find nerve cells, we find pain. Wherever we find humanoids, we find armies and psychopaths. Wherever we find Life, we find Death. That cycle is the reason for evolution, although evolution never seems to overcome it.

    In a way all of these things are necessary to a certain extent, the same nerve cells which allows us to feel pain allows us to feel pleasure, and even pain itself serves many important functions, such as indicating disfunction in our bodies or teaching which dangerous situations one should avoid; learning occurs mostly as a result of mistakes. I have no objection to the existence of armies and psychopaths, after all, these individuals are simply making use of their freedom.


    If this universe had been created by some sort of deity, I would say it was very unintelligent design, especially if that creator loved its creatures. Warped, I'd say.


    Unintelligent as opposed to what exactly? Is there any reason why it should be any different, do you feel that you can conceive of a more perfect universe and why it would be justified?
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    29 Jan '11 20:59
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ...[text shortened]... ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    A couple million more cycles of universal destruction and reconstitution and the One Without A Second might finally clear up these problems. Have a little patience.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jan '11 00:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    Intelligent design has nothing to do with sagacity of the creator, but whether a supervising entity had some sort of role in guiding the evolutionary process.

    Trying to speculate as to the thought process of a being so powerful that it could survive for billions of years and construct a Universe capable of producing human life is a pointless exercise. Nothing in our puny human minds could possibly hope to judge or understand the motives of such a being. It would be like my 3 year old coming on this board and complaining that her parents must be sadistic evil monsters because they don't let her have as much candy as she wants.

    Edit: Actually, that's not true. The gap between my 3 year old and myself is far, far, far smaller than the gap between us and a deity capable of guiding our existence.
  10. 30 Jan '11 17:42
    Originally posted by sh76
    Intelligent design has nothing to do with sagacity of the creator, but whether a supervising entity had some sort of role in guiding the evolutionary process.

    Trying to speculate as to the thought process of a being so powerful that it could survive for billions of years and construct a Universe capable of producing human life is a pointless exercise. Nothin ...[text shortened]... is far, far, far smaller than the gap between us and a deity capable of guiding our existence.
    Yes to all who replied in this vein. The alternative to forming an opinion, based on the universe as evidence, of the motivations or character or mental competence of a hypothetical designer, is to refrain from doing so.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Jan '11 23:15
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Wherever we find nerve cells, we find pain. .
    Well to be picky, NOT SO. We have specific nerve pathways to transmit pain. We do not have a comparable system for pleasure, though arguably we have a centre in the Brain that signals pleasure, with the result that drug addicts keep pushing that button until they die.
  12. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Jan '11 23:19
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ...[text shortened]... ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    Maybe you should investigate the Gnostic belief that there is a God so remote that [...] has not the slightest interest, from whom after several emanations came a lesser god who was responsible for creation and made a mess of it, with a different god who tried to sort out the mess and failed, leaving shards of the good God adrift in our ...

    Oh you have to look this type of stuff up. But still, there is a perfectly viable religious tradition that thinks God made a mess of the creation.
  13. 31 Jan '11 01:05
    Originally posted by JS357
    If evolution had been designed, that is.

    The Background: This thought came across my mind when I was considering the argument from intelligent design for the existence of a creator-deity of some sort. I was also thinking about the possibility that SETI finds nothing because all technologically advanced civilizations turn their planets into Mars or Venus. Bu ...[text shortened]... ve a nice day and try to find something to debate about. It's a way to compete nonviolently.
    Dumb design?

    You know what they say, stupid is as stupid does, so maybe your right!!