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  1. 21 Oct '12 13:55 / 1 edit
    http://www.swifteconomics.com/2011/05/29/fiat-money-is-a-ponzi-scheme/

    Is fiat money a ponzi scheme? As the article contends, is the economy of the world based upon a pyramid scheme in which governments are trying to inflate their way out of paying what they owe, only to have tax payers at the bottom of the pyramid left holding the bag?

    Don't be at the bottom. Time to cash out I think. Buy gold?
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    21 Oct '12 14:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.swifteconomics.com/2011/05/29/fiat-money-is-a-ponzi-scheme/

    Is fiat money a ponzi scheme? As the article contends, is the economy of the world based upon a pyramid scheme in which governments are trying to inflate their way out of paying what they owe, only to have tax payers at the bottom of the pyramid left holding the bag?

    Don't be at the bottom. Time to cash out I think. Buy gold?
    Considering that Friedmanite central banks have made it their prime mission to keep inflation and interest rates as low as possible for the last 30 years, the assertion is bizarre.
  3. 21 Oct '12 14:38 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Considering that Friedmanite central banks have made it their prime mission to keep inflation and interest rates as low as possible for the last 30 years, the assertion is bizarre.
    So what? There is still inflation. The fact remains that the dollar is decreasing in value every day, and has been for some time now. All that they are doing is buying time via a shell game. So tell me, what if government was asked to pay back all of its debts today? That would be impossible How then can you say it is NOT a ponzi scheme? All you have done is show how they are scheming to keep the current system viable longer.

    I suppose they are buying time to set up a new monitary system. So what will it be? There are clues out there, such as this article suggests.

    http://timiacono.com/index.php/2010/10/13/should-the-u-s-government-sell-its-gold/

    In the article it states, "But returning to the gold standard would reinstate a system associated with unstable prices, wages, output and employment. It has not existed for a century, and will not make a comeback. Official discussions of the reform of the international monetary system do not include any advocates of a return to gold, and the IMF articles of agreement prohibit it."

    So it won't be gold.

    From my perspective, fiat currency was created for one purpose, which is to empower government to spend what it does not have. This is the real reason we will not see another return to gold. For you see, a currency based upon gold demands that you balance budgets. This is simply out of the progressive equation.

    My guess is it will be another attempt at a fiat system.
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    21 Oct '12 15:34
    Originally posted by whodey
    So what? There is still inflation. The fact remains that the dollar is decreasing in value every day, and has been for some time now. All that they are doing is buying time via a shell game. So tell me, what if government was asked to pay back all of its debts today? That would be impossible How then can you say it is NOT a ponzi scheme? All you have d ...[text shortened]... ut of the progressive equation.

    My guess is it will be another attempt at a fiat system.


    A) You don't know or understand what a "Ponzi scheme" is and neither do the articles you keep linking to.

    B) Nations went away from a gold standard because it artificially limited the amount of economic activity and was inefficient. A gold standard is really just a fiat system anyway as gold itself has no intrinsic value. And governments routinely ran up debts for hundreds of years even though there was a gold (and usually silver) standard.

    whodey, I know I am wasting my time explaining this to you, but really this hysterical nonsense you spout is getting old.
  5. 21 Oct '12 15:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    So what? There is still inflation. The fact remains that the dollar is decreasing in value every day, and has been for some time now.
    If by "for some time now" you mean three years, then sure. There was actually deflation in 2009 of 0.34%. Inflation hasn't been above 4% since 1991. What's the big deal? For all their failures, it seems to me like central banks have done a reasonable job in controlling inflation in the last 2 decades.

    Clearly you don't know what a Ponzi scheme is (nor do you know how to spell it), nor do you know much about the history of why fiat money came into being (hint: it has nothing to do with government borrowing) and then you make the absurd suggestion that a gold standard would prevent governments from borrowing money (it doesn't and it hasn't). Why don't you do some basic research about the subjects you are trying to discuss before discussing them?
  6. Standard member smw6869
    Granny
    21 Oct '12 17:09
    Ponzi from "Happy Days" drove a Fiat....how bad can they be?


    GRANNY.
  7. 22 Oct '12 01:26
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Considering that Friedmanite central banks have made it their prime mission to keep inflation and interest rates as low as possible for the last 30 years, the assertion is bizarre.
    "Friedmanite central banks"

    Pulleeze. You can lay a lot of stuff on Friedman, but not central banking.
  8. 22 Oct '12 01:27
    Originally posted by no1marauder


    A) You don't know or understand what a "Ponzi scheme" is and neither do the articles you keep linking to.

    B) Nations went away from a gold standard because it artificially limited the amount of economic activity and was inefficient. A gold standard is really just a fiat system anyway as gold itself has no intrinsic value. And governments routi ...[text shortened]... my time explaining this to you, but really this hysterical nonsense you spout is getting old.
    Would you care to enlighten us as to what a Ponzi scheme is, instead of telling us we don't know?
  9. 22 Oct '12 01:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.swifteconomics.com/2011/05/29/fiat-money-is-a-ponzi-scheme/

    Is fiat money a ponzi scheme? As the article contends, is the economy of the world based upon a pyramid scheme in which governments are trying to inflate their way out of paying what they owe, only to have tax payers at the bottom of the pyramid left holding the bag?

    Don't be at the bottom. Time to cash out I think. Buy gold?
    Fiat money is a tool the financial elite of the world are using to control the world. The value of Fiat money is manipulation. When they got away from the gold standard a huge amount of power was usurped from the people and given to the global elite. Thomas Jefferson warned of this. Gold can be manipulated as well. It does provide a tangible measure of wealth, but that can be taken from you easily.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    22 Oct '12 02:02
    Originally posted by normbenign
    "Friedmanite central banks"

    Pulleeze. You can lay a lot of stuff on Friedman, but not central banking.
    Friedman had lots of advice for central banks and most of the people running the world's central banks subscribe to his theories.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    22 Oct '12 02:03
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Would you care to enlighten us as to what a Ponzi scheme is, instead of telling us we don't know?
    Try Google. I've already had this discussion on this board about a dozen times and don't feel like rediscovering the wheel.
  12. 22 Oct '12 03:40 / 1 edit
    A ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the schem running (cough, stimulus). So if government money is not an investment, then why do we here those in government say they want to use taxpayer money in the form of a stimulus to "invest" in America?

    I think we can both agree that a ponzi scheme is doomed to failure at some point. However, the same can be said of fiat currency historically, so I could care less if you want to compare the two or not because the outcomes seem to be identical.

    http://elevationsgroupreviews.com/collapse-of-modern-financial-system/the-inevitability-of-fiat-currency-collapse/

    "There is a little understanding among the middle class about the true ramifications of a fiat corrency collapse and the effects that it will have. Most people don't even know what a fiat currency is. A fiat currency is essentially an inveted money system whereby there is no actual commodity, nothing of real value, backing up the system. The whole power of the fiat currency comes from popular support and faith in the government and their regulation of the printing and production of new money. History and practice has shown fiat currency to be unsound. The current state of the economy shows it still to be unsound. There are a wealth of problems associated with its use as an economic base.

    Ever since Roman times, the experiment of fiat currency has existed. And every time fiat currency collapse because the fiat currency is DEVALUED. Originally achieved by lowering the silver content of their money, the eventual outcome was a coin with less than 0.05% silver. The people of Rome soon began to realize that their currency was worthless. China experienced the same phenomenon. In order to deal with lack of hard commodities to use as money, the printing of paper money was taken up by the government. Theoretically, these paper notes should have been exchanged for gold silver, or silk, but when the economy got bad these commodities were not available in such supply, which led to a fiat currency collapse. The uses of fiat currency throughout time have almost always occurred in times of financial stress. The US used fiat currency to support WW 1 and WW 2, but in these cases the dollar was still backed by gold. That worked well for the US dollar because the Europe paid teh US in gold. In 1971 Richard Nixon took the US off the Gold Standard and created the fiat currency that it is today. History has shown it to be the case that either a fiat currency collapses or the government preemptively shifts back to a commodity based standard.

    The modern US statistics are showing a consistant inflation rate in the fiat currency. It is currency inflation because when the central bank (the Fed) prints fiat currency out of thin air then it results in the currency inflation.

    This inflation has been shown to lead to hyperinflation, whereby the fiat currency collapse removes all confidence of the citizens in the artificual money. The US has a long history of shifting back and forth between fiat and gold standard systems, which has kept it safe so far, but the current system has been going on for more than 30 years and the resulting statistical spike in the economy is an unheard of event that signifies a much greater problem on the horizen.

    To make things worse, the Fed, which issues the paper money, is in no way controlled by the Treasury Department of the US, which means that, essentially, every fiat currency dollar printed is a dollar owed by the US government to a private corporation.

    The gold standard has inevitably replaced every fiat currency system that was attempted for the last 3000 years. The collapse happens at such a rapid pace that there is no chance for people to exhange, even if they could, their paper money for the more tried and true gold or silver, or, in the modern age, oil commodities that would ensure that their wealth would survive a severe economic downturn."
  13. 22 Oct '12 03:49 / 1 edit
    There is so much wealth out there on this topic that it is staggering. In fact, the IMF seems to have already concluded what they will do when, not if, it happens.

    http://timiacono.com/index.php/2010/10/13/should-the-u-s-government-sell-its-gold/

    "Another counter argument is that the US should hold on to its stock of gold in anticipation of a return -- by itself alone or with other nations -- to a monetary system based on gold. But returning to the gold standard would reinstate a system associated with unstable prices, wages, output and employment. It has not existed for a century, and will not make a comeback. Official discussions of the "reform" of the international monetary system do not include any advocates of a return to gold, and the IMF articles of agreement prohibits it."

    So as you can see, the powers that be refuse to go back to the gold standard. Even though it is not a perfect system, which nohting is, at least it does not collapse on itself. No doubt, they will replace the old system with another inventive fiat system......which will also collapse.

    Love it!!

    So since the gold standard has been thrown under the bus, I question the value of it to hedge against this oncoming calamity.
  14. 22 Oct '12 03:52 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder

    B) Nations went away from a gold standard because it artificially limited the amount of economic activity and was inefficient..[/b]
    Translated: It put a straight jacket on the beast. Now the beast has been unleashed and the world is it's victim.

    I just love the words "limited government" In fact, I would just assume make a recording of it and play it over, and over, and over......

    In the end, however, we all know the culprit of the futuristic collapse. It would have to be the failure of capitalism!!! LOL
  15. 22 Oct '12 14:12
    Copypasting from websites that contain hysterical nonsense does not constitute doing research. You even copypasted the claim that there has been constant inflation even though I posted on this very thread that this is untrue. Do you ever read anything other people post on these forums?