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  1. 10 Apr '14 20:52
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

    Bureau of Land Management appear to have declared war on the last rancher in Clark County Nevada.

    http://rt.com/usa/nevada-ranch-armed-feds-520/

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/10/tense-video-feds-taser-pro-nevada-rancher-protester-during-clash/

    The video is of protesters who aren't necessarily kin of the rancher involved. Fifty seven year old woman thrown to ground by Fed storm troopers. A dog is commanded to attack a pregnant woman. Is this our government that is supposed to compassionately solve all our problems?

    http://www.infowars.com/cliven-bundy-calls-on-sheriff-to-start-arresting-blm-feds/

    Militia involved. Sheriff called on to arrest feds. When or will this erupt into a shooting war?
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    West Coast Represent
    10 Apr '14 21:02 / 1 edit
    Theme movies for Nevada - The Godfather (Moe Green, Fredo Corleone, the Senator..."my offer is this...nothing" ).

    and Casino. De Niro plays a Jewish gangster in that one. Compare to De Niro in Goodfellas (Jimmy "The Gent", an Irish-American) or The Untouchables (Capone, Italian).
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    10 Apr '14 21:06
    Originally posted by normbenign
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

    Bureau of Land Management appear to have declared war on the last rancher in Clark County Nevada.

    http://rt.com/usa/nevada-ranch-armed-feds-520/

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/10/tense-video-feds-taser-pro-nevada-rancher-p ...[text shortened]... litia involved. Sheriff called on to arrest feds. When or will this erupt into a shooting war?
    A guy wants to illegally graze his cattle on federal lands without paying required fees. He raises flimsy legal claims to do so that are rejected by the courts, but still refuses to abide by the law.

    He should be under arrest like other common lawbreakers rather than being touted as some kind of hero.
  4. 10 Apr '14 21:09
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A guy wants to illegally graze his cattle on federal lands without paying required fees. He raises flimsy legal claims to do so that are rejected by the courts, but still refuses to abide by the law.

    He should be under arrest like other common lawbreakers rather than being touted as some kind of hero.
    How and why does the federal government own land? Other than the District of Columbia?
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    10 Apr '14 21:16
    Originally posted by normbenign
    How and why does the federal government own land? Other than the District of Columbia?
    Article 4, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

    The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

    And many, many, many laws putting that provision into effect.
  6. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    10 Apr '14 21:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A guy wants to illegally graze his cattle on federal lands without paying required fees. He raises flimsy legal claims to do so that are rejected by the courts, but still refuses to abide by the law.

    He should be under arrest like other common lawbreakers rather than being touted as some kind of hero.
    I don't think as simple as your argument, but it's not as obvious a case of trampling rights as the Bundy family would have you believe, either. The truth is somewhere in the middle - but this looks like a Ruby Ridge in the making.
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    10 Apr '14 21:23
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    I don't think as simple as your argument, but it's not as obvious a case of trampling rights as the Bundy family would have you believe, either. The truth is somewhere in the middle - but this looks like a Ruby Ridge in the making.
    How so? According to the Fox article:

    Since then, he has lost two federal court rulings — and a judge last October prohibited him from physically interfering with any seizure or roundup operation.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    West Coast Represent
    10 Apr '14 21:28
    Everyone take note as the right wingers line up to defend a man who refuses to pay for the use of land he does not own.
  9. 10 Apr '14 22:03
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Article 4, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

    The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

    And many, many, many laws putting that provision into effect.
    That's the how. How about the why?
  10. 10 Apr '14 22:08
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    How so? According to the Fox article:

    Since then, he has lost two federal court rulings — and a judge last October prohibited him from physically interfering with any seizure or roundup operation.
    The argument appears to be regarding grazing rights, and longstanding understanding of them. This appears to have been a decades long disagreement, not just the last two court cases. The federal land grabs out west are legendary. I want to know more, before the shooting starts.
  11. 10 Apr '14 22:09
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Everyone take note as the right wingers line up to defend a man who refuses to pay for the use of land he does not own.
    Should the government be charging him rent?
  12. 10 Apr '14 22:15 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by normbenign
    That's the how. How about the why?
    Who paid for the Louisiana Purchase?

    (We have to ignore how France took title.)
  13. 10 Apr '14 22:27
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    I don't think as simple as your argument, but it's not as obvious a case of trampling rights as the Bundy family would have you believe, either. The truth is somewhere in the middle - but this looks like a Ruby Ridge in the making.
    This argument has been brewing for a couple of decades. Now under the pretext of protecting an obscure species, BLM decides to send in an army of heavily armed cattle rustlers. Why now?
  14. 10 Apr '14 22:29
    Originally posted by JS357
    Who paid for the Louisiana Purchase?

    (We have to ignore how France took title.)
    Regardless of the outcome, most scholars believe Jefferson acted in contrast to his express beliefs, and the Constitution.
  15. 10 Apr '14 22:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Regardless of the outcome, most scholars believe Jefferson acted in contrast to his express beliefs, and the Constitution.
    Hoo boy, the territory of your mind is strewn with booby traps for the unwary. (Said in jest.)