We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is brighter now than it would've been had there been no invasion.
It seems that out of the countless governments destabilized and lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
17 Jul 22
1 edit
@vivify saidNO....And there are 100,000(?) less Iraqis,
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lost, ruined or lost because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
and some 4,000 American kids to ask.
Spreading Democracy, huh?
Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush himself should
have been charged with war crimes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good post..............Thoughtful subject matter, for a change
17 Jul 22
@vivify saidWell, there’s still an insurgency in the North. And Iraq still has a negative travel advice.
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
17 Jul 22
@vivify saidJapan???
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
So we're including World War II era stories?
Can anyone doubt that German, Italy and all of Europe are better off now than they'd have been without US intervention in World War II?
Even assuming the USSR would have won the war without US help, Europe would be under Soviet domination (especially Germany) without US intervention.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
17 Jul 22
@vivify saidBrand names, Capitalism, Communism, Socialist, Fascist, Autocracy, Plutocracy, and on and on and on. Most people don't really care.
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
What they want is the same as we want.
They want to be able to raise their family in peace.
They want a stable government that assures their safety.
They want food in their cupboard and a means of employment.
They want an education for their children.
The reason The Viet Cong and now, The Taliban are
able to prevail is that they assure a lawful and orderly society.
Saddam was a despot sure, but he guaranteed law and order.
Our problem is we seem to think that our way is best for everyone.
For example.
We roll into Afghanistan, where warlords and chiefs have been ruling
their fiefdoms for hundreds of years and we think we are going to install a 'democracy,' overnight, that will work for everyone.?
.............You called it right Viv....HUBRIS.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
17 Jul 22
@sh76 saidYou can make an argument for South Korea.
Japan???
So we're including World War II era stories?
Can anyone doubt that German, Italy and all of Europe are better off now than they'd have been without US intervention in World War II?
Even assuming the USSR would have won the war without US help, Europe would be under Soviet domination (especially Germany) without US intervention.
- Joined
- 18 Jan 07
- Moves
- 12477
17 Jul 22
@sh76 saidYes. Yes, we can.
Can anyone doubt that German, Italy and all of Europe are better off now than they'd have been without US intervention in World War II?
You too have never been outside of Texas, have you?
- Joined
- 18 Jan 07
- Moves
- 12477
17 Jul 22
@jimm619 saidFrankly, I care more about a single one of those Iraqi than about all of the USA murder-hobos.
NO....And there are 100,000(?) less Iraqis,
and some 4,000 American kids to ask.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
17 Jul 22
@shallow-blue saidNaw, they were duped too.
Frankly, I care more about a single one of those Iraqi than about all of the USA murder-hobos.
17 Jul 22
@vivify saidYes !!
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
Sometimes the before and after comparisons will be drowned out by the mess that happens by the mess in between.
18 Jul 22
@vivify saidSyria is definitely not better off. ISIS plunged that country into a civil war which is ongoing. ISIS came into existence as a direct response to the US occupation of Iraq.
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
18 Jul 22
1 edit
@vivify saidAt least one of the reasons they are better off now has nothing to do with the war. I read somewhere there was a trade embargo on everything (yes, everything) coming from Iraq unless it was oil from 1990-2003. After, the trade embargo was lifted and their economy improved markedly.
We all know the invasion of Iraq is utterly indefensible, a war crime and a tragic act of stupidity and American hubris.
But putting that aside, is Iraq better off now in the post-Saddam era than it was before? The question is NOT whether everything is perfect in Iraq but whether the disgraceful and criminal invasion resulted in a lucky accident where their future is bri ...[text shortened]... lives lost or ruined because of U.S. warmongering, Japan and Iraq are the only two success stories.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
18 Jul 22
2 edits
@moonbus saidAnd everyone knew it was coming.
Syria is definitely not better off. ISIS plunged that country into a civil war which is ongoing. ISIS came into existence as a direct response to the US occupation of Iraq.
The worst part of it all is that Iraq had
NOTHING AT ALL to do with 9/11.
The military action was merely a ploy
to enrich Republican donors, contractors, Halliburton.
It was criminal.
18 Jul 22
@shallow-blue saidI once made to the diner over in Texarkana.
Yes. Yes, we can.
You too have never been outside of Texas, have you?
But anyway, since we’re being serious, make the argument.
18 Jul 22
@wildgrass saidThat embargo was a direct result of Saddam invading Kuwait. Those sanctions likely would've continued if Saddam wasn't removed by the U.S.
At least one of the reasons they are better off now has nothing to do with the war. I read somewhere there was a trade embargo on everything (yes, everything) coming from Iraq unless it was oil from 1990-2003. After, the trade embargo was lifted and their economy improved markedly.