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Suicide is a selfless act.
Altruism i.e. living your life for others is only a degree or so off suicide, it is nothing to be proud of, or to strive for.
I maintain that you do get something from giving blood or you would not do it for very long, it may be a feeling of well being, it may be a kind of bragging rights to family and friends, this may sound a little crass but 'so what' examine your own motives carefully and honestly there will be other reasons I'm sure.
I was a member of a volunteer organisation that was quite demanding of time, never once did I try to kid myself it was "acting in the service of the greater good" It was exciting, there were new things to be learnt and they were great bunch of people, it remains one of the things I miss most by not being back home in NZ. Occasionally we got recruits coming through who claimed to be 'paying a debt' or 'putting something back in' or 'it was their duty' invariably these were the short timers.
The soldier throwing himself on a grenade is not helpful to this discussion, the time to actually assess the situation or look at the bigger picture is not there, the horror, the panic, no person is going to act rationally and so we should not look to such examples to ascertain whether a person is making a calculated act.
I sincerely hope that those that go off to wars are not doing so out of 'sacrifice' but rather to fight for and defend something they believe in. To strive to come back home and live a better life in a better world then what it might have been had they not made the effort.
Leave the truly altruistic sacrificial acts to the life hating suicide bombers.
Originally posted by Wajomawrong, suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness
Suicide is a selfless act.
Altruism i.e. living your life for others is only a degree or so off suicide, it is nothing to be proud of, or to strive for.
I maintain that you do get something from giving blood or you would not do it for very long, it may be a feeling of well being, it may be a kind of bragging rights to family and friends, this may soun ...[text shortened]...
Leave the truly altruistic sacrificial acts to the life hating suicide bombers.
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterWould it count if it were an Iraqi parent?
The U.S. servicemen fighting the War on Terror perform selfless acts every day, as do policemen and firemen. Also, what about parents who jump in to save a drowning child, or would you define these as "heroic" acts?
What about an Iraqi parent that saved their child from being killed by a selfless and heroic US serviceman? What if that parent were ... a Muslim?
Originally posted by duecerSelfishness is to act in ones own best interests, suicide is the exact opposite of that. Admittedly a suicide cares little for other people but that does not make the act selfish, because to care for others one must first be able to care for oneself.
wrong, suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness
When there is no 'self'?
Originally posted by GoatboysrevengeI gave myself to my girlfriend last Thursday.
I've just been to give blood, I do so regularly (14 times in the last 8 years), and my work colleague jokingly said I only do it to get out of the office for an hour (the National Blood Service come to our office every 4 months I think).
This got me thinking, do I actually do it for that reason? In the UK, you don't get paid to give blood, it's pu ...[text shortened]... ime is now most definitely money, is there really still such a thing as 'the selfless act'?
That was pretty selfless.
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterSaving your own child is not selfless, neither is being payed to waste your life in a quagmire. There are still benefits.
The U.S. servicemen fighting the War on Terror perform selfless acts every day, as do policemen and firemen. Also, what about parents who jump in to save a drowning child, or would you define these as "heroic" acts?
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Originally posted by WajomaSuicide is either a call for attention (usually the people who ATTEMPT suicide, not really that hard to kill yourself, and if you really want to, it happens) or an attempt to escape misery. It is the opposite of selflessness. It has EVERYTHING to do with the self. As for suicide bombers, they are trying to get a good seat in heaven.
Suicide is a selfless act.
Altruism i.e. living your life for others is only a degree or so off suicide, it is nothing to be proud of, or to strive for.
I maintain that you do get something from giving blood or you would not do it for very long, it may be a feeling of well being, it may be a kind of bragging rights to family and friends, this may soun
Leave the truly altruistic sacrificial acts to the life hating suicide bombers.
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Originally posted by treetalkThat's not selfless. Being the first to offer yourself to be eaten by the others is selfless.
Unless it saved others in the process - as in limited food/water in a lifeboat prompting someone to slip over the side at night to give the others more of a chance ...
Originally posted by WajomaAltruism i.e. living your life for others is only a degree or so off suicide, it is nothing to be proud of, or to strive for.
Suicide is a selfless act.
Altruism i.e. living your life for others is only a degree or so off suicide, it is nothing to be proud of, or to strive for.
I maintain that you do get something from giving blood or you would not do it for very long, it may be a feeling of well being, it may be a kind of bragging rights to family and friends, this may soun ...[text shortened]...
Leave the truly altruistic sacrificial acts to the life hating suicide bombers.
True for the individual in the short term, bad for the population, and possibly as a result the individual in the long term. In small doses it doesn't adversely affect the individual (such as letting someone go through a door before you instead of shoving). Acts like this will benefit you in the long run as if done in the right way it will encourage others to reciprocate. If you start shoving people, they may feel more like they need not bother doing likewise for others, and you're more likely to get shoved in the future (if only a very small amount)
I maintain that you do get something from giving blood or you would not do it for very long, it may be a feeling of well being, it may be a kind of bragging rights to family and friends, this may sound a little crass but 'so what' examine your own motives carefully and honestly there will be other reasons I'm sure.
Too true. The way I see it is if you want to receive blood medically you'd be wise to help maintain the blood bank. Your donation will make you more likely to receive one should you need it in the future.
I was a member of a volunteer organisation that was quite demanding of time, never once did I try to kid myself it was "acting in the service of the greater good" It was exciting, there were new things to be learnt and they were great bunch of people, it remains one of the things I miss most by not being back home in NZ. Occasionally we got recruits coming through who claimed to be 'paying a debt' or 'putting something back in' or 'it was their duty' invariably these were the short timers.
I'd wager this is about those people not getting the feeling they thought they'd be getting out of it. In this case I'd say this is an example of reciprocal altruism - you offered your services for nothing but benefited from the experience and environment you were in (i.e. people gave you back something without expecting anything in return). Some of your colleagues may have quit when they didn't get the payback they expected.
The soldier throwing himself on a grenade is not helpful to this discussion, the time to actually assess the situation or look at the bigger picture is not there, the horror, the panic, no person is going to act rationally and so we should not look to such examples to ascertain whether a person is making a calculated act.
Don't agree with that, why does calculation have to come into it? When we act on instinct we are demonstrating our most honest impulses. If the grenade was likely to have killed the soldier anyway, diving on it served to preserve his comrades at no loss to him.
I sincerely hope that those that go off to wars are not doing so out of 'sacrifice' but rather to fight for and defend something they believe in. To strive to come back home and live a better life in a better world then what it might have been had they not made the effort.
True, agree with that
Now I know you're probably shaking your head at some the above, but I'd like to offer this conclusion. Altruism should primarily be a spontaneous act (i.e. the polite civil things that come to you naturally), as when it's performed consciously we expect far too much in return and it's more likely to be detrimental. So only act altruistically if you are likely to benefit in the long run.
