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Debates Forum

  1. 20 Jul '11 03:02
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Daily-Reckoning/2011/0110/On-the-worthlessness-of-Japanese-government-debt

    Japan's debt is at insane levels, yet the USA owes Japan over 900 billion. Borrowing and lending at the same time?

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/07/15/138155724/china-japan-lead-international-pack-holding-u-s-debt

    Isn't this contrary to common sense? Can anyone explain this so it makes sense?
  2. 20 Jul '11 10:06
    Bond holders don't have to be governments now do they?
  3. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    20 Jul '11 10:11
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Daily-Reckoning/2011/0110/On-the-worthlessness-of-Japanese-government-debt

    Japan's debt is at insane levels, yet the USA owes Japan over 900 billion. Borrowing and lending at the same time?

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/07/15/138155724/china-japan-lead-international-pack-holding-u-s-debt

    Isn't this contrary to common sense? Can anyone explain this so it makes sense?
    But it's not contrary to what a meth addict does.
  4. 20 Jul '11 11:59
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Bond holders don't have to be governments now do they?
    But it is hard to tell isn't it?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/11/banking-bond-holders-debt
  5. 20 Jul '11 15:49
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Bond holders don't have to be governments now do they?
    Here you go kazet.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/usa-geithner-treasuries-idUSWEN959720110315

    Explain why the Japanese government holds US bonds while they are deep in debt themselves.
  6. 21 Jul '11 13:37
    So why don't the US and Japan come to an agreement to wipe out each other's mutual debt? They'd eliminate future interest payments, and surely that would make the economic future a lot brighter for both countries. Who's going to lose?
  7. 21 Jul '11 14:09
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    So why don't the US and Japan come to an agreement to wipe out each other's mutual debt? They'd eliminate future interest payments, and surely that would make the economic future a lot brighter for both countries. Who's going to lose?
    You are making perfect sense unless the goal is to put the most of the people in both countries into economic slavery.
    Our interests and the interests of the elite are two different things.

    Makes you angry doesn't it?
  8. 21 Jul '11 14:22
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Here you go kazet.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/usa-geithner-treasuries-idUSWEN959720110315

    Explain why the Japanese government holds US bonds while they are deep in debt themselves.
    Perhaps because the yield of US bonds is higher. Perhaps for some other reason. Perhaps because it's a dark sinister conspiracy by the zionist freemasons of the Bilderberg group.
  9. 21 Jul '11 14:47
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Perhaps because the yield of US bonds is higher. Perhaps for some other reason. Perhaps because it's a dark sinister conspiracy by the zionist freemasons of the Bilderberg group.
    How could the yield of US bonds be higher when they are at AAA credit rating? Japan's debt is too great for the risk of default to be less. If you can prove me wrong please do so.

    It looks like it is a conspiracy. Any investment adviser would tell an individual to pay off their own debt first. When the extremely wealthy choose to create perpetual debt by having countries loan to each other instead of spending it to stimulate the economy what other conclusion can you come to?

    Here is another oddity for you to ponder.

    http://pierrelegrand.net/2009/06/14/japans-interior-minister-gone-because-of-discovery-of-134-billion-in-us-bonds-discovered-in-failed-smuggling-attempt-hush-hushlets-not-panic-the-rest-of-the-us-bond-holders.htm
  10. 21 Jul '11 14:53
    I'm not sure if I understand these figures properly but they seem to suggest that the yield on Japanese bonds is lower.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/japan/
    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us/
  11. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    21 Jul '11 14:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    How could the yield of US bonds be higher when they are at AAA credit rating?
    For nominal bonds it's probably inflation expectations. Check Japan's inflation rate.

    There are many reasons why it may be useful to have both debt and savings at the same time. Liquidity, diversification, etc.
  12. 21 Jul '11 15:03
    Originally posted by Palynka
    For nominal bonds it's probably inflation expectations. Check Japan's inflation rate.

    There are many reasons why it may be useful to have both debt and savings at the same time. Liquidity, diversification, etc.
    I don't buy it.

    It doesn't make sense to have such high debt to begin with, let alone lend at the same time. Show me the details.
  13. 21 Jul '11 15:09
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I'm not sure if I understand these figures properly but they seem to suggest that the yield on Japanese bonds is lower.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/japan/
    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us/
    I don't understand them either.
    It makes little sense even if it is true. Why would anybody lend to Japan if rates were so low and they can lend to another country?
  14. 21 Jul '11 15:18
    Here is an interesting article I just ran across.

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/economy/japans-debt-crisis-5-things-you-must-know.html/
  15. 21 Jul '11 15:26
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I don't buy it.

    It doesn't make sense to have such high debt to begin with, let alone lend at the same time. Show me the details.
    Look at Norway's debt. Then look at Norway's state investment fund.