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Debates Forum

  1. 15 Feb '13 13:18
    Jim Cramer says this on the link below:

    Why gold? Cramer said that gold is a special case because it tends to go up when everything else goes down. Think of it as stock insurance, he said, a safe haven. He continued to recommend the SPDR Gold Shares (GLD_), as owning the gold miners themselves has proven to be too risky.

    http://www.thestreet.com/story/11838313/1/cramers-mad-money-recap-protecting-your-profits.html

    Does gold really go up when everything else goes down? Since 2008 it seems to go down with the stock market to the best of my memory. Why doesn't he recommend owning physical gold? Doesn't his recommending SPDR Gold Shares just make it easier for gold to be manipulated with short selling and perhaps naked shorting therefore screwing the very people that listen to him?
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Feb '13 13:36 / 1 edit
    Gold's value is inflated by an entire society of paranoid people who think the thin veneer of civilization is about to crack (and have thought so for 50 years) etc.

    There are parallels between that and petroleum, the price of which is also inflated by speculators.

    The major difference is that petroleum actually has an important use in industry. The high value of gold relies strictly on the "greater fool" theory.
  3. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    15 Feb '13 14:54
    Originally posted by sh76
    Gold's value is inflated by an entire society of paranoid people who think the thin veneer of civilization is about to crack (and have thought so for 50 years) etc.

    There are parallels between that and petroleum, the price of which is also inflated by speculators.

    The major difference is that petroleum actually has an important use in industry. The high value of gold relies strictly on the "greater fool" theory.
    Aah...a voice of reason.
  4. 15 Feb '13 15:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Gold's value is inflated by an entire society of paranoid people who think the thin veneer of civilization is about to crack (and have thought so for 50 years) etc.

    There are parallels between that and petroleum, the price of which is also inflated by speculators.

    The major difference is that petroleum actually has an important use in industry. The high value of gold relies strictly on the "greater fool" theory.
    LOL!

    You have been saying gold is a bubble for years. It is still above 1600. You and Kazet will keep saying the same thing for years to come. Kazet says it could be as much as 5 years, but that was about 6 months or so ago so maybe 4 and 1/2 by now. Are you saying Jim Cramer is a fool for recommending holding some gold?

    Anyway you are ignoring the questions in my OP. This thread is not about whether or not gold is a bubble, just market manipulation.
  5. 15 Feb '13 15:10
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Aah...a voice of reason.
    My brother said gold would crash in 2 years and that was 3 years ago. Do you have any predictions?

    Does gold go up when other investments go down? In the last 4 years or so it seems gold goes up with the stock market. Am I mistaken?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Feb '13 16:08 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    LOL!

    You have been saying gold is a bubble for years. It is still above 1600. You and Kazet will keep saying the same thing for years to come. Kazet says it could be as much as 5 years, but that was about 6 months or so ago so maybe 4 and 1/2 by now. Are you saying Jim Cramer is a fool for recommending holding some gold?

    Anyway you are ignoring the ...[text shortened]... ns in my OP. This thread is not about whether or not gold is a bubble, just market manipulation.
    I never used the word bubble. The group of Chicken Littles that keep the price of gold up may last forever. I don't know.

    Incidentally, when I reference the "greater fool" theory, I don't mean to literally call anyone a fool. It's a term of art that describes investing money in something without "real" value on the assumption that someone else will later will willing to pay you more for it, in spite of that lack of value.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool

    I don't know if Jim Cramer is right or wrong. I do know that he was screaming (literally) about how strong Bear Sterns and Lehman Bros were right until the moment they went bust, so forgive me if I don't run to mortgage my family's future on his say so.
  7. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    15 Feb '13 16:35
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Jim Cramer says this on the link below:

    Why gold? Cramer said that gold is a special case because it tends to go up when everything else goes down. Think of it as stock insurance, he said, a safe haven. He continued to recommend the SPDR Gold Shares (GLD_), as owning the gold miners themselves has proven to be too risky.

    http://www.thestreet.com/s ...[text shortened]... hort selling and perhaps naked shorting therefore screwing the very people that listen to him?
    I'd rather speculate on tulips.
  8. 15 Feb '13 16:42
    Originally posted by sh76
    I never used the word bubble. The group of Chicken Littles that keep the price of gold up may last forever. I don't know.

    Incidentally, when I reference the "greater fool" theory, I don't mean to literally call anyone a fool. It's a term of art that describes investing money in something without "real" value on the assumption that someone else will later wil ...[text shortened]... went bust, so forgive me if I don't run to mortgage my family's future on his say so.
    Obviously I disagree with Jim Cramer's assertion that gold goes up when other investments go down, so I think he is not worth listening to at least some of the time.

    Maybe the doom and gloomers are not all wrong. The national debt is up there and some say dollar devaluation is the only way to make the debt easier to repay. Aside from Buffet's recent purchase of Heinz his actions don't seem like he is bullish on the economy. Food seems to do okay in a recession and I'm sure Warren knows that.

    http://www.moneynews.com/Outbrain/billionaires-dump-economist-stock/2012/08/29/id/450265?PROMO_CODE=FE8A-1
  9. 15 Feb '13 16:44
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    I'd rather speculate on tulips.
    You can't eat tulips either. What is your point?
  10. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    15 Feb '13 17:03
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    You can't eat tulips either. What is your point?
    I find tulips more attractive than gold.
  11. 15 Feb '13 17:35
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    I find tulips more attractive than gold.
    I think that is rather foolish, but to each their own. Gold has had monetary value for centuries, Tulips have not. Kazet (who is dutch) is quick to point out the tulip bubble in the past.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    15 Feb '13 17:39
    Gold doesnt rot.
  13. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    15 Feb '13 18:00
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Gold doesnt rot.
    Tulips grow and multiply. Gold does not.
  14. 15 Feb '13 18:16
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Tulips grow and multiply. Gold does not.
    That is why gold is so coveted. It is rare. Lots of living things multiply. That is why they are not worth much in general.
  15. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    15 Feb '13 19:01
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    That is why gold is so coveted. It is rare. Lots of living things multiply. That is why they are not worth much in general.
    And yet living things are so much more valuable than gold. Some living things are so valuable, we would give all the gold in the world for them.