09 Sep 09
The Justice Department is investigating a group of lawyers working for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) for taking pictures of covert CIA agents at Guantanamo Bay and handing them over to known al Qaida operatives. The lawyers, representing several detainees charged with organizing the September 11, 2001, attacks, have been accused of participating in an elaborate scheme to “out” as many as forty covert CIA agents, by tracking them to their homes and photographing them.
The ACLU lawyers are accused of conspiring in what is being called the “John Adams Project,” along with the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL), and using lists and data from “human rights groups,” European researchers and news organizations that were involved in tracking international CIA-chartered flights and monitoring hotel phone records. The John Adams Project allegedly developed a list of 45 CIA employees, which the ACLU team tailed and photographed surreptitiously; often as they were leaving their homes.
Does this "protect Americans" as some here have claimed the ACLU does or, does it undermine our safety?
http://www.pogowasright.org/?tag=john-adams-project
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonWho were/are the "known al Qaida operatives" you mention?
[b]The Justice Department is investigating a group of lawyers working for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) for taking pictures of covert CIA agents at Guantanamo Bay and handing them over to known al Qaida operatives. The lawyers, representing several detainees charged with organizing the September 11, 2001, attacks, have been accused of ...[text shortened]... s or, does it undermine our safety?[/b]
http://www.pogowasright.org/?tag=john-adams-project[/b]
09 Sep 09
An interesting quotation from ACLU founder, Roger Baldwin, that pretty much sums it all up:
"I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonA lot of the wicked organizations cloak themselves by giving a false representation of what they stand for. Civil liberties is good so ACLU is good. A similar thing is the Texas property owners bill of rights. The name makes it sound good but it takes rights away. No one looks into the stuff so it is a very effective tactic. Now Jay Rockefeller is wanting to do away with the internet as we know it. Hmm I wonder why?
An interesting quotation from ACLU founder, Roger Baldwin, that pretty much sums it all up:
[b]"I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."[/b]
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonSo?
An interesting quotation from ACLU founder, Roger Baldwin, that pretty much sums it all up:
[b]"I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."[/b]
I mean, you and I may have different ideas than the guy, but that doesn't mean he's "evil" or must be destroyed for it.
He lives in a free country. Right?
09 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by SeitseA belief is one thing, but acting out on it in this case and in this country is treason. We don't have the freedom to comit treason.
So?
I mean, you and I may have different ideas than the guy, but that doesn't mean he's "evil" or must be destroyed for it.
He lives in a free country. Right?
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonSo did they hand the photos over to Dick Cheney?
[b]The Justice Department is investigating a group of lawyers working for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) for taking pictures of covert CIA agents at Guantanamo Bay and handing them over to known al Qaida operatives. The lawyers, representing several detainees charged with organizing the September 11, 2001, attacks, have been accused of ...[text shortened]... s or, does it undermine our safety?[/b]
http://www.pogowasright.org/?tag=john-adams-project[/b]
09 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by joe beyserAnd?
A belief is one thing, but acting out on it in this case and in this country is treason. We don't have the freedom to comit treason.
If the law says so and the courts decide it, then so be it. Jail, or gas chamber, or whatever you have over there for traitors.
That's not the point, the point is that he would be "condemned" by people or the media just because he (apparently) has an unpopular ideology. He is supposed to have freedom of speech. And, of course, everybody is innocent until proven guilty.
Sad thing is that I get the feeling that a Republican funding Al-Qaeda (including two former residents of the Oval Office) provokes not much "horror" as a person sympathizing with radical left.
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by SeitseThat is because people have been programed to be for one side or the other. The left right paradigm will crumble and people need to start thinking on their own.
And?
If the law says so and the courts decide it, then so be it. Jail, or gas chamber, or whatever you have over there for traitors.
That's not the point, the point is that he would be "condemned" by people or the media just because he (apparently) has an unpopular ideology. He is supposed to have freedom of speech. And, of course, everybody is innocent ...[text shortened]... o be in the Oval Office) provokes not much horror as a person sympathizing with radical left.
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by joe beyserLOL
That is because people have been programed to be for one side or the other. The left right paradigm will crumble and people need to start thinking on their own.
Funny thing is that the independent, revolutionary thinking, much of it responsible for civil rights achievements, has always come from the left.
Oh well... Never change, dude! 🙂
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonAbolishment of the state but all property and wealth controlled by....the state? OMGWTFBBQ how can everything be owned and controlled by some vast social network and that not be "a state"?
An interesting quotation from ACLU founder, Roger Baldwin, that pretty much sums it all up:
[b]"I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."[/b]
Just have to wonder how deluded these people are.
09 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by SeitseAre you for real?!
So?
I mean, you and I may have different ideas than the guy, but that doesn't mean he's "evil" or must be destroyed for it.
He lives in a free country. Right?
What does " abloishing the state itself" mean?
And define "treason" for me please.
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonAnarchy is a political ideology, my friend.
Are you for real?!
What does " abloishing the state itself" mean?
And define "treason" for me please.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
As for treason, I am not familiar with U.S. law in the matter, but here's a source citing the U.S. Code...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States
By the sole act of voicing his political ideology, he is as much of a traitor as someone saying that the bills should not say 'In God we trust'... unless, of course, atheists are considered as enemies of the U.S.
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by SeitseNo. You do not know what you are talking about. The man is a communist talking about abolishing the " state" (our system of government) in the U.S. and replacing it w/communisim. That is treason.
Anarchy is a political ideology, my friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
As for treason, I am not familiar with U.S. law in the matter, but here's a source citing the U.S. Code...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States
By the sole act of voicing his political ideology, he is as much of a traitor as someone saying that the bills ...[text shortened]... ot say 'In God we trust'... unless, of course, atheists are considered as enemies of the U.S.
09 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by utherpendragonI won't go into a mud slinging contest with you regarding my qualifications to speak about political theory and history. It is not the place nor the essence of this thread.
No. You do not know what you are talking about. The man is a communist talking about abolishing the " state" (our system of government) in the U.S. and replacing it w/communisim. That is treason.
What I can tell you, though, is that as harsh as it may sound to your ears, the abolition of the state is a valid political ideology contained, in more or less extent, in every posture advocating for less pyramidal authority in the traditional sense within state theory.
Now, not being knowledgeable in U.S. criminal law, I couldn't speak about the precedents, but clearly (if Wiki is right) the U.S. Code states at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states
whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Hence, the question is simple: is he levying war against the U.S.?
Remember that reduction of the state as we know it until its disappearance can be achieved by non-violent means.
Sh76 is a lawyer, I believe. Perhaps he could shed light regarding interpretation of the 'law on the books' on this matter.