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Originally posted by normbenignYou can cherry pick Zimbabwe and South Africa and Uganda, but I suspect that there is something other than socialism at work.
You can cherry pick Sweden, but I suspect that it is more than socialism at work. Zimbabwe and South Africa and Uganda don't have such a sparkling record. And again, spreading the wealth around only is a possibility when a measure of capitalism and free markets creates the wealth the socialists redistribute.
Originally posted by normbenignI'm not cherry picking Sweden. I'm cherry picking Sweden, Norway, Finland, Holland, Denmark and to a lesser extent France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switserland, Austria, Slovenia, Germany, Canada and Japan.
""I ignore the empirical evidence for these benefits?" Crime is lower in, say, Sweden. Education is better. People do trust others and government more. You can easily look up all the stats on nationmaster.
You can cherry pick Sweden, but I suspect that it is more than socialism at work.
Zimbabwe and South Africa and Uganda don ...[text shortened]... hen a measure of capitalism and free markets creates the wealth the socialists redistribute.
Of course there is more than socialism at work. That's why I have been talking about capitalism-based socialism the whole time; combining the economic benefits of both ideologies.
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Originally posted by normbenignDo you people even know what the concept of "bankruptcy" is?
"That's going to "bankrupt" the richest country the world has ever seen in Whodey's warped view"
The richest country in the world is more than 10 trillion in debt, and sinking fast.
And little, if any, of that debt has been caused by Social Security.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageTo work, socialism appears to require a much smaller, homogenous population. It won't work in a huge melting pot where materialism is the state religion. It won't work anywhere that is populated or led by people who put their own interests ahead of the public interest. And those who don't do that are about as numerous, it would seem, as the nearly extinct Javan Rhinoceros.
Socialism requires patience, brother; we shall overcome!
Originally posted by ScriabinWhat percentage of the world population needs to "disappear" in order to make socialism possible?
To work, socialism appears to require a much smaller, homogenous population. It won't work in a huge melting pot where materialism is the state religion. It won't work anywhere that is populated or led by people who put their own interests ahead of the public interest. And those who don't do that are about as numerous, it would seem, as the nearly extinct Javan Rhinoceros.
Originally posted by ScriabinLet's see. Holland, which uses a system based on social liberalism, has an inhomogeneous (20% of the population consists of immigrants and their children, no religion is represented by more than 50% of the population) population, crammed into a small plot of land (one of the highest population densities in the world) and filled with people who are materialistic and care mostly about themselves.
To work, socialism appears to require a much smaller, homogenous population. It won't work in a huge melting pot where materialism is the state religion. It won't work anywhere that is populated or led by people who put their own interests ahead of the public interest. And those who don't do that are about as numerous, it would seem, as the nearly extinct Javan Rhinoceros.
It works though.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIt's not socialism, though.
Let's see. Holland, which uses a system based on social liberalism, has an inhomogeneous (20% of the population consists of immigrants and their children, no religion is represented by more than 50% of the population) population, crammed into a small plot of land (one of the highest population densities in the world) and filled with people who are materialistic and care mostly about themselves.
It works though.
Originally posted by ScriabinYes, I was kidding. Nothing really seems to work, does it?
To work, socialism appears to require a much smaller, homogenous population. It won't work in a huge melting pot where materialism is the state religion. It won't work anywhere that is populated or led by people who put their own interests ahead of the public interest. And those who don't do that are about as numerous, it would seem, as the nearly extinct Javan Rhinoceros.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageYou got it there, nothing seems to work.
Yes, I was kidding. Nothing really seems to work, does it?
I think Philip K. Dick may have had it right after all. And here I was for many years, at least since the collapse of the soviet union, breathing a little easier.
I grew up under the threat of an imminent mushroom cloud. Unlike many others, I had a scientist as a father. He had me read SF. So I read the fact articles as well as the fiction. Asimov wrote the fact pieces and Bradbury the fiction that gave me the understanding while a child of just what the Cuban Missile Crisis meant to me, individually. Living 10 miles from the Washington Monument, having attended a lecture given by Edward Teller at Goddard Space Flight Center near my home (a friend's father worked there studying the sun), I was well informed of the radius of destruction even a 1 to 5 megaton thermonuclear device would produce.
So when the school authorities started making us "prepare" with blankets and canned goods and permission slips to stay with people closer to the school, I abstained. I even laughed, though I did not think it very funny. I was prepared to take Bradbury's advice and when the sirens sounded I'd run outside to the one solid white painted reinforced concrete wall facing downtown and stand in an attitude that would look good as a carbon imprint. Either that, or I'd just try to bend over and kiss my ass goodbye -- I knew the issue for me would not be fallout. That's more than a kid my age should have had to know and cope with. So I was relieved when we could stand down from that edge for some years.
Now, we are almost there again. So we can look ahead to a world made up of ash deserts, boiled oceans, skies obscured by clouds of dust, freezing temperatures, no plants, no animals, no food, and so on.
No. nothing really seems to work except our apparently inevitable march toward self destruction -- a march we undertake in our own best self-interest.