Originally posted by Eladar"How much money would the medical industry make if everyone is healthy?"
How much money would the medical industry make if everyone is healthy?
Why would the Medical Industry strive to make people healthy if they make money on the sick?
This is something that struck me as I'm doing research on iodine, especially in respect to bromine and fluoride.
The medical industry has never postulated a goal of making everyone healthy. Most medical professionals would see that as a pie in the sky goal. Industry goals are far more limited and rational.
Now put government in charge, and limited and rational go out the window. Then your question needs to be asked.
"Why would the Medical Industry strive to make people healthy if they make money on the sick?"
Because history tells us that as one problem is solved, there are still enough unsolved so that plenty of money is going to be made by solving the new problems.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraPossibly true, but when a bureaucracy is formed, its first instinct is its own preservation, not accomplishing any great cosmic good. If this is true of private for profit companies, it is more true of government entities.
A lot of medical research is done using public funds.
Originally posted by KazetNagorrainsurance companies don't give the medical care, they only pay for it. the drug companies are the ones who invest in R&D. and they invest in drugs that keep you alive and sick.
To be fair, insurance companies do have an incentive to provide preventive care. But since an insurance contract is only temporary, such incentives are to the short or mid-term at best, and then only if personnel aren't paid bonuses for meeting short-term objectives.
you made clothes, would you make a t-shirt that doesn't rip, its colors never fade and never gets dirty?
Originally posted by whodeynirvana fallacy. look it up.
Yea, socialized medicine around the world are coming up with "cures" hand over fist, eh?
Where do you people come from? ðŸ˜
my point, o great and powerful republican, is that an industry will never willingly put itself out of business. it will never shorten its customers list.
and no, socialized medicine doesn't come up with cures. government grants help scientists come up with cures. donations.
Originally posted by Wajomasarcasm must be done right, and at a proper time. if you use it all the time, you just embarrass yourself and come out as incapable of having a conversation.
Yeah, you're 100 perxactly keyrect, what we need is universal health care for cars. Mechanics sabotage cars 'all' the time just as you say, after all you saw it on a documentary.
Originally posted by normbenignand plenty more will be made by not solving them at all. seriously, do you listen to yourself? an industry agrees to solve a problem instead of making money off it because there are other problems where they do make money? so they make money of some sick while curing some others just for funziez? how do they decide that? maybe they only make money of not curing heart conditions, but give out a flu cure because they are good people?
"How much money would the medical industry make if everyone is healthy?"
The medical industry has never postulated a goal of making everyone healthy. Most medical professionals would see that as a pie in the sky goal. Industry goals are far more limited and rational.
Now put government in charge, and limited and rational go out the window. Then y ...[text shortened]... ill enough unsolved so that plenty of money is going to be made by solving the new problems.
Originally posted by ZahlanziIt's not possible to have a conversation with someone so blinkered as you:
sarcasm must be done right, and at a proper time. if you use it all the time, you just embarrass yourself and come out as incapable of having a conversation.
"if you turn your medical care into an industry, they wouldn't in fact make any money if they cure people."
There are many companies spending untold millions on a cure for cancer, whoever gets there first has hit the jackpot. They will reap the rewards for curing people, not maintaining ill health.
The car analogy is very applicable, we can thank god if there were one that the health of cars is left to private enterprise, the many choices the market offers for car repair, the car repair organisations that trade on the good name they have built doing exactly that, the way people who look after their vehicles have lower maintenance costs. Exactly the way it should be and 180 degrees opposite of the state model where people who look after their health pay for those who are reckless and end up on a waiting lists behind those that are careless.
Originally posted by Wajomathey cannot "hit the jackpot" if they cure cancer. they cannot make the cure a million dollars and expect people to buy it. also, support your claim that companies are researching cancer cures. how can you tell?. name some, and link results.
It's not possible to have a conversation with someone so blinkered as you:
"if you turn your medical care into an industry, they wouldn't in fact make any money if they cure people."
There are many companies spending untold millions on a cure for cancer, whoever gets there first has hit the jackpot. They will reap the rewards for curing people, not mai ...[text shortened]... pay for those who are reckless and end up on a waiting lists behind those that are careless.
what they are researching is cancer. what they might eventually get is either something that keeps you alive and with cancer, or a drug that needs a zillion doses before you will be cured.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThis. Or they lie about what needs fixing, that's a big one.
Mechanics sabotage the cars they fix all the time. I remember seeing a documentary where they caught the mechanics putting in broken parts so the person would have to get the car fixed again soon.
I watched a documentary where they put a hidden cam under the hood of a car and disconnected a cable. The cable was all that was wrong and takes two seconds to reconnect. The took it to five auto shops, and only two were honest about what was wrong. One fixed it for no charge, the other charged ten bucks. The rest made up BS about what was wrong with the car and tried to charge a large amount of money.
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperyou basically just said exactly why healthcare as an industry fails. you rely on an organization that has no interest in doing the right thing, do the right thing. an organization you cannot control how it uses its resources, unless you are a stock holder in which case you convince a majority of stockholders to make less money.
This. Or they lie about what needs fixing, that's a big one.
I watched a documentary where they put a hidden cam under the hood of a car and disconnected a cable. The cable was all that was wrong and takes two seconds to reconnect. The took it to five auto shops, and only two were honest about what was wrong. One fixed it for no charge, the othe ...[text shortened]... rest made up BS about what was wrong with the car and tried to charge a large amount of money.
a mechanic, as a human being, might do what is right and decent. but mostly never an organization. one is basically hoping that someone would use their own money to research a drug that will not benefit it as much as another.
in opposition to this, you have government funded programs (which basically means funded by the people) that need and can be made transparent. that one can direct according to ones needs, that must make public its findings so that other can use that research further.
Originally posted by ZahlanziFirst of all, the chances of surviving cancer today are much greater than anytime in the past. So SOMEBODY is researching cancer cures and having some success. Almost all of us know people who are cancer survivors.
you basically just said exactly why healthcare as an industry fails. you rely on an organization that has no interest in doing the right thing, do the right thing. an organization you cannot control how it uses its resources, unless you are a stock holder in which case you convince a majority of stockholders to make less money.
a mechanic, as a human be ...[text shortened]... g to ones needs, that must make public its findings so that other can use that research further.
Second, a lone mechanic can be corrupt without leaving a paper trial. A large pharmaceutical leaves a paper trial for virtually everything. Imagine this:
Memo: Everyone ostensibly working on a cure for cancer should make sure they don't really find a cure so we won't lose customers.
Imagine that smoking gun coming to light. And if that directive is not written, how can a large company actually operate that way? How can the tell their new employees to NOT find a cure for cancer?
Originally posted by techsoutha lone mechanic can be corrupt without leaving a paper trial.
First of all, the chances of surviving cancer today are much greater than anytime in the past. So SOMEBODY is researching cancer cures and having some success. Almost all of us know people who are cancer survivors.
Second, a lone mechanic can be corrupt without leaving a paper trial. A large pharmaceutical leaves a paper trial for virtually everythin ...[text shortened]... ctually operate that way? How can the tell their new employees to NOT find a cure for cancer?
it was just an example. the point was to show that a temporary fix is more profitable than a permanent fix. the drug company isn't the corrupt mechanic, FDA tests and lawsuits make sure they don't make money by "breaking" the patients. they simply do not know how to fix you in an efficient and time and money saving manner. and they never will aim to learn that because it is not financially justified.
"the chances of surviving cancer today are much greater than anytime in the past. "
yep. surviving. you hit the nail on the head. you are meant to survive a disease. you aren't meant to take two pills for two weeks and be done with cancer (like in the case of flu).
Originally posted by techsouthHow can the tell their new employees to NOT find a cure for cancer?
First of all, the chances of surviving cancer today are much greater than anytime in the past. So SOMEBODY is researching cancer cures and having some success. Almost all of us know people who are cancer survivors.
Second, a lone mechanic can be corrupt without leaving a paper trial. A large pharmaceutical leaves a paper trial for virtually everythin ...[text shortened]... ctually operate that way? How can the tell their new employees to NOT find a cure for cancer?
they don't. they simply make them sign non disclosure agreements, or decide not to submit a certain drug for testing.
how many articles with headlines "omg, drug shows promise in curing cancer in rats" have you seen? how many articles with headlines "remember when we told you about the drug that cured cancer? the fda allows us to sell it now, lets get rid of cancer". lots of the former and none of the latter.