Mexico vs Brazil

Any Brazil vs Mexico perspectives anyone wants to add are welcome.


Examples:

Which economy will grow faster?
Which will have bigger influence in the future?
Which is more influential now?
Which has the better healthcare system?

Originally posted by eljefejesus
Any Brazil vs Mexico perspectives anyone wants to add are welcome.


Examples:

Which economy will grow faster?
Which will have bigger influence in the future?
Which is more influential now?
Which has the better healthcare system?

Which economy will grow faster?
I think it will be Brazil, but Mexico isn't far behind.

Which will have bigger influence in the future?
I don't think they'll have any more influence than they have right now.

Which is more influential now?
well, mexico is the 11th largest economy in the world, whereas Brazil is the 8th.
In 2008, the GDP growth of Mexico was 3.2%, whereas Brazil's was 5.1%.
Mexico suffered more with the economic crisis than brazil, (economic slowdown of more than 0.5% compared to an economic slowdown of more than 0.1😵.

Which has the better healthcare system?
Mexico has universal healthcare only for pregnant women, and they have health insurance for chidren.
whereas as brazil has universal healthcare for everyone, the system in brazil is effective in some areas, but it is generally crippled by corruption and underfunding, but still, I'd say the general lay out is better than mexico's.

Apologies to Sietse, but Brazil has too much offensive firepower.

Brazil 2 Mexico 0.

Global warming will turn Brazil into an oven, but if they can harnass all that solar energy there are definite possibilities. The best example is sugar cane derived ethanol, but solar panels or some such thing might work too. Historically temperate nations have been the most successful, while tropical countries are less wealthy and powerful. If this trend continues Mexico will have the advantage there, though they'll be pretty warm too. Mexico has the US shared border which makes for excellent trading possibilities. The corruption in Mexico is crippling it.

In the short run, Brazil. Long run, Mexico.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Global warming will turn Brazil into an oven, but if they can harnass all that solar energy there are definite possibilities. The best example is sugar cane derived ethanol, but solar panels or some such thing might work too. Historically temperate nations have been the most successful, while tropical countries are less wealthy and powerful. If thi ...[text shortened]... ies. The corruption in Mexico is crippling it.

In the short run, Brazil. Long run, Mexico.

Historically temperate nations have been the most successful, while tropical countries are less wealthy and powerful. If this trend continues Mexico will have the advantage there, though they'll be pretty warm too.

If that is really true, than why isn't argentina more successful than both mexico and brazil?

Mexico has the US shared border which makes for excellent trading possibilities.

that is true. but to be fair, brazil shares a border with all other countries in s.america (with the exception of a chile and ecuador), which provides good trading possibilities.

The corruption in Mexico is crippling it.

again to be fair, brazil isn't doing any better considering there is widespread corruption even in the senate.

Originally posted by generalissimo
Historically temperate nations have been the most successful, while tropical countries are less wealthy and powerful. If this trend continues Mexico will have the advantage there, though they'll be pretty warm too.

If that is really true, than why isn't argentina more successful than both mexico and brazil?

Mexico has the US shared bor brazil isn't doing any better considering there is widespread corruption even in the senate.

Argentina has a much higher GDP per capita than Brazil (US $14,413 vs $10,551) and is very close to Mexico's ($14,932). About half of Mexico is temperate. Some of Brazil is temperate; interestingly, San Paulo, the biggest city in Brazil is in that region. Rio de Jeneiro (the second biggest city) is right on the border of temperate and tropical; the extra heat is probably good for the partying that city is known for.

Brazil does have a good position for naval trade as well with the east coast of the Americas, Africa, and even the Mediterranean. Her shared borders are an excellent resource, but the countries she shares borders with aren't particularly wealthy like the US is. In addition, those countries don't have to go through Brazil to get to each other. Mexico is the ONLY Latin American nation with a border with a first world power...not only that, but THE biggest economic power in the world besides the EU.

GDP per capita taken from Wikipedia. Yeah, yeah, I know. If you don't like the source please offer another.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Argentina has a much higher GDP per capita than Brazil (US $14,413 vs $10,551) and is very close to Mexico's ($14,932). About half of Mexico is temperate. Some of Brazil is temperate; interestingly, San Paulo, the biggest city in Brazil is in that region. Rio de Jeneiro (the second biggest city) is right on the border of temperate and tropical; th ...[text shortened]... ken from Wikipedia. Yeah, yeah, I know. If you don't like the source please offer another.

Good points.

Originally posted by generalissimo
[b]Which economy will grow faster?
I think it will be Brazil, but Mexico isn't far behind.

Which will have bigger influence in the future?
I don't think they'll have any more influence than they have right now.

Which is more influential now?
well, mexico is the 11th largest economy in the world, whereas Brazil is the 8th.
In ...[text shortened]... rruption and underfunding, but still, I'd say the general lay out is better than mexico's.[/b]

1) faster growth
I agree that Brazil has faster growth, for which I blame a large part on Mexico's state-owned PEMEX which continues to drag on Mexico's growth rates.

2) bigger influence in the future
I think Brazil has more of an interest in yielding worldwide influence and it will succeed in its attempts. It already meets with other BRIC countries to raise it influence, seeks a leadership roll in Latin America's regional organizations, and from speakers on tv it appears that many Brazilians enjoy and defend a growing place for Brazil in the world.
Mexico meanwhile experience a war with the US over the breakaway texan republic, with heavy territorial loss as the result of the US' annexation of texas. Mexico's constitution calls for noninterference by large countries in the affairs of small countries, therefore it opposed the Iraq war. Despite its many trade accords, I think Mexico will not seek as much political influence in world affairs.


3)
I agree that Brazil is more influential because of its shear size. Mexico's growth may counterbalance some of this if it can one day change its consitution to allow it to privatize pemex. However, it also is generally considered by some nations (like Brazil and Venezuela) to have less right to influence in Latin America because of its ties to the US.


4)
As far as health care, I think Mexico has a far superior idea. Mexico treats children like children and adults like adults, so it allow children free healthcare. However, adults have less benefits. Brazil seems to be following a slightly more socialist path (treating adults like children of the government). I am not a big fan of socialized medicine, many problems grow and grow.

Originally posted by sh76
Apologies to Sietse, but Brazil has too much offensive firepower.

Brazil 2 Mexico 0.

Man, that's like soccer.

Still in politics and economics there is certainly a big advantage to Mexico's geographic location as has been pointed out by others, so who knows what the future will bring as Mexico opens up.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Argentina has a much higher GDP per capita than Brazil (US $14,413 vs $10,551) and is very close to Mexico's ($14,932). About half of Mexico is temperate. Some of Brazil is temperate; interestingly, San Paulo, the biggest city in Brazil is in that region. Rio de Jeneiro (the second biggest city) is right on the border of temperate and tropical; th ken from Wikipedia. Yeah, yeah, I know. If you don't like the source please offer another.

You've made the following points favoring Brazil:

Sugar-power
Strategic position for oceanic trade and Shared border with other nations (generalissimo the issue of bordering nations, you agreed)
Mexican corruption (countered by generalissimo appropriately noting Brazilian corruption)


You've made the following points favoring Mexico:

Border with the US
Temperate climate fitting pattern of high-development regions



Other than taking the position that temperate climates and global warming may be overdone as factors in the future (given that climatologists can't really say for sure that the entire earth will be warmer or cooler or break it down by region with certainly for the near or distant future, only that there will be change and variation)... I largely agree with the points made and countered. Both Brazil and Mexico have high levels of corruption compared to Chile and Argentina's reputations, but lower than most of the rest of Latin America. They are probably comparable on that one.

I strongly agree that geography and trade favors Mexico. The US economy is far bigger than all the small Latin American nations in South America that exclude Brazil and Chile which are the ones we are discussing as a benefit for Brazil (since Chile does not border Brazil and Brazil is the nation discussed), and this is not expected to change in the foreseeable decades ahead.

Furthermore, look what Mexico is actually doing with its trading position. It has signed NAFTA with the US and free trade agreements with the European Union and a few years ago with Japan. It signed free trade agreements with the Central American Nations as well as others, and has been making some progress with others nations. Brazil has like one or two regional trade agreement.

Mexico's trade exceeds that of most of Latin America combined.

During the years of Argentina's debt crisis and since, many Argentinians have emigrated to Mexico.

Mexico share a language with most of Latin America, and advantage which Brazil does not have.

Mexico borders 2 oceans, whereas Brazil just borders 1.

Mexico share the NAFTA agreement with Canada too.

A strength for Brazil that nobody has mentioned is the changing oil advantage.

Mexico's state-run enterprise is facing production declines due to political use of its funds that limit exploration and investment.

Brazil's stock-owned (technically still public) company Petrobras has discovered huge reserves in the Tupi field which led Lula de Silva to declare that God is Brazilian. They have an oil bonus (which will over time turn in to a curse against other competing sectors of the economy) while Mexico has a drag on its total growth and GDP numbers because of its declining oil fortunes.


Overall, I agree that in the short run, Brazil.
In the long-run, Mexico.

Mexico has opened up and reformed more than Brazil, whereas BRIC has mean relatively high investment in Brazil that is still comparable to the investment in Mexico, a smaller nation, but as we discussed, richer per person.

The individual Mexican will continue to live better than the individual Brazilian.
However, Brazil is so huge, that it benefits from size in some ways also shared by the other BRIC nations, all largely moderate-low income nations, but huge nations with capacities for huge millitary man-power and expenditure.

Originally posted by eljefejesus
1) faster growth
I agree that Brazil has faster growth, for which I blame a large part on Mexico's state-owned PEMEX which continues to drag on Mexico's growth rates.

2) bigger influence in the future
I think Brazil has more of an interest in yielding worldwide influence and it will succeed in its attempts. It already meets with other BRIC countrie ...[text shortened]... the government). I am not a big fan of socialized medicine, many problems grow and grow.

Brazil seems to be following a slightly more socialist path (treating adults like children of the government). I am not a big fan of socialized medicine, many problems grow and grow.

what? do you think preventing people from being exploited by insurance companies (which is what happens in the US) is "treating them like children"?

well, no system is perfect, and universal healthcare has its problems, but still, I'd rather have a government that is more concerned about saving lives than saving money.

Originally posted by eljefejesus
Mexico has opened up and reformed more than Brazil, whereas BRIC has mean relatively high investment in Brazil that is still comparable to the investment in Mexico, a smaller nation, but as we discussed, richer per person.

The individual Mexican will continue to live better than the individual Brazilian.
However, Brazil is so huge, that it benefits f ...[text shortened]... w income nations, but huge nations with capacities for huge millitary man-power and expenditure.

Mexico has opened up and reformed more than Brazil, whereas BRIC has mean relatively high investment in Brazil that is still comparable to the investment in Mexico, a smaller nation, but as we discussed, richer per person.

another problem is that Brazil is run by incompetent leaders, the country itself has great potential, but sometimes too much government interference has proven to be damaging.

Originally posted by generalissimo
[b]Mexico has opened up and reformed more than Brazil, whereas BRIC has mean relatively high investment in Brazil that is still comparable to the investment in Mexico, a smaller nation, but as we discussed, richer per person.

another problem is that Brazil is run by incompetent leaders, the country itself has great potential, but sometimes too much government interference has proven to be damaging.[/b]

You guys do have a powerful responsibility and opportunity with all that virgin rain forest. I can see Brazil being a potential fantasy land for biologists and chemists.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
You guys do have a powerful responsibility and opportunity with all that virgin rain forest. I can see Brazil being a potential fantasy land for biologists and chemists.

I think it would be good if we invested more in research, and the exploration of the amazon and its plants, and who knows maybe we could find cures for many diseases.

however, we can't ignore the fact that some of it could be used for other industries such as mining and cattle ranching.