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Debates Forum

  1. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 17:34 / 1 edit
    In this month's issue of Money Magazine, there is disturbing set of statistics dealing with college graduation rates. You have the Well-Off (those whose parents' income was in the top 25% ), the Poor (those whose parents' income was in the bottom 25% ), those who had high SATs (from 1200 to 1600), and those who had low SATs (800 to 999). It breaks down as follows:

    Well-Off with high SATs graduated at 82%

    Well-Off with low SATs graduated at 52%

    Poor with high SATs graduated at 44%

    Of course the rich, smart people do well. There's no surprise there. But the rich idiots graduate at a HIGHER rate than the poor, smart people. Being wealthy is a greater guarantee that you'll graduate from college than being smart. For a nation that prides itself on "equal opportunity", this should be a mark of shame.
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    07 Jul '09 18:12
    Originally posted by rwingett
    In this month's issue of Money Magazine, there is disturbing set of statistics dealing with college graduation rates. You have the [b]Well-Off (those whose parents' income was in the top 25% ), the Poor (those whose parents' income was in the bottom 25% ), those who had high SATs (from 1200 to 1600), and those who had low SATs (800 to 999). It br ...[text shortened]... . For a nation that prides itself on "equal opportunity", this should be a mark of shame.[/b]
    Exactly.

    Dump the lousy public school system that's failed the poor and replace it with a voucher system that requires results of the schools if they want your voucher dollars. The schools will need to get results or perish, unlike the public schools which flounder along in perpetuity.
  3. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 18:21
    Originally posted by sh76
    Exactly.

    Dump the lousy public school system that's failed the poor and replace it with a voucher system that requires results of the schools if they want your voucher dollars. The schools will need to get results or perish, unlike the public schools which flounder along in perpetuity.
    It's amazing the conclusions you can draw from the data if you're creative enough.

    There's no way you can fault the public school system based on the data I've presented here. Both poor and rich kids are getting good SAT scores. The free public schools DO provide equal opportunity.

    Back to the blackboard for you.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    07 Jul '09 18:22 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There's no way you can fault the public school system based on the data I've presented here.
    No, not on the data you've presented alone.

    I'm a proponent of vouchers for many other reasons apart from this data.

    I'd be interested to hear how you would fix the public school system, though.

    Or, are you saying that the public schools are fine? KN was saying the other day that the public schools in poor neighborhoods were so bad that the poor are effectively not given an education? Is he right?
  5. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    07 Jul '09 18:25
    Originally posted by rwingett
    In this month's issue of Money Magazine, there is disturbing set of statistics dealing with college graduation rates. You have the [b]Well-Off (those whose parents' income was in the top 25% ), the Poor (those whose parents' income was in the bottom 25% ), those who had high SATs (from 1200 to 1600), and those who had low SATs (800 to 999). It br ...[text shortened]... . For a nation that prides itself on "equal opportunity", this should be a mark of shame.[/b]
    Link?
  6. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    07 Jul '09 18:27
    Originally posted by rwingett
    In this month's issue of Money Magazine, there is disturbing set of statistics dealing with college graduation rates. You have the [b]Well-Off (those whose parents' income was in the top 25% ), the Poor (those whose parents' income was in the bottom 25% ), those who had high SATs (from 1200 to 1600), and those who had low SATs (800 to 999). It br ...[text shortened]... . For a nation that prides itself on "equal opportunity", this should be a mark of shame.[/b]
    Perhaps college is just overrated considered how expensive it is today. Maybe someone of average intellegence and average income in America would be better off getting a lower paying job right out of high school, saving there money, and starting a small business. Training for such a path can be found in any public library. I don't know if this is a great answer, but it's an alternative that should be looked at.
  7. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 18:27
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Link?
    Page 98 of the July issue of Money Magazine.
  8. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 18:28
    Originally posted by bill718
    Perhaps college is just overrated considered how expensive it is today. Maybe someone of average intellegence and average income in America would be better off getting a lower paying job right out of high school, saving there money, and starting a small business. Training for such a path can be found in any public library. I don't know if this is a great answer, but it's an alternative that should be looked at.
    Why don't you try that with your kids. Let us know how it works.
  9. 07 Jul '09 18:29
    Originally posted by rwingett
    For a nation that prides itself on "equal opportunity"
    You're joking, right?
  10. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 18:30
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    You're joking, right?
    You'll have to be more specific.
  11. 07 Jul '09 18:35
    I thought the American Dream was about succeeding despite poor chances - beating the odds, if you wish.
  12. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 18:39
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I thought the American Dream was about succeeding despite poor chances - beating the odds, if you wish.
    We like to think that everyone has an equally poor opportunity to succeed.
  13. 07 Jul '09 18:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    We like to think that everyone has an equally poor opportunity to succeed.
    I don't see many Americans on these forums arguing for redistribution of wealth.
  14. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    07 Jul '09 18:45
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Why don't you try that with your kids. Let us know how it works.
    It worked for me. I've been a Realtor for 22 years and I make over $80,000 per year...even in this economy. Sorry to burst your bubble!!
  15. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Jul '09 18:48
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I don't see many Americans on these forums arguing for redistribution of wealth.
    That was a joke.

    If you ask people, they'll typically say something about how if you work hard enough you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps, or some such thing. The idea is that enough hard work can get anyone to the top. There is the perception of equal opportunity in that regard. The point I am making here is that it isn't necessarily so. Money is a greater factor than hard work.