More trouble from Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac

Originally posted by monster truck
Sounds good.
Where do all these super smart Fins work?

Mostly in Finland.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Mostly in Finland.

😀

So the majority of Fins receive their education and elect to stay and work in-country?

Originally posted by monster truck
😀

So the majority of Fins receive their education and elect to stay and work in-country?

In the past many Finns went to work in Sweden but nowadays they are both very rich countries so there is not much reason for Finns to go abroad. Most of the Finns I spoke with were pretty happy with the way their society works. Why do you think they would want to leave?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
In the past many Finns went to work in Sweden but nowadays they are both very rich countries so there is not much reason for Finns to go abroad. Most of the Finns I spoke with were pretty happy with the way their society works. Why do you think they would want to leave?

Excellent!
I imagine immigration to Finland must be huge.
Do you have an open border policy similar to the U.S.?

i.e. if you can get into the country, the system will take care of you and your children regardless of citizenship?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Pretty high, Finland, having few natural resources, decided a few decades ago to invest heavily in education. It's worked out very well for them. Finland spends about $1500 per capita annually on education.

"The Finnish education system is an egalitarian Nordic system, with no tuition fees for full-time students. Attendance is compulsory for nine yea ...[text shortened]... and #2 in maths and science education."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_finland

So I could offer the Finns say $1600/year per head and they would be happy to give my kids a world-class college education?

Originally posted by spruce112358
So I could offer the Finns say $1600/year per head and they would be happy to give my kids a world-class college education?

It seems you only have to pay living expenses, although that may be changing.

http://qna.educouncil.org/Fees_and_Living_Costs/nZxyNXyynZx.html

Of course your kids would have to qualify first.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
It does not need to be "a way to distinguish the haves from the have-nots". You can have a tuition fee of $0 but select students based on their talent rather than the pockets of their parents. Having a tuition fee of $0 does not mean you get a degree for free, for example in my year about 60% of students have dropped out since starting because they coul e also easier university courses than applied physics, of course, but that's another matter.

I see. Just so long as you have a way to weed out enough people to create a lower and higher class. But what of the students education before entering college? My guess is that the "smart" students had access to superior educations that gave them an edge over their peers. Make no mistake, higher education has less to do with education than it does seperating the haves and have nots.

So if the universities don't charge tuition, where is their source of income? As for universities in the US, they are money making machines. Intertwined are other industries such as hospitals and sports teams etc. In fact, you can't go near them without be charged an arm and a leg for parking.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It seems you only have to pay living expenses, although that may be changing.

http://qna.educouncil.org/Fees_and_Living_Costs/nZxyNXyynZx.html

Of course your kids would have to qualify first.

Exactly. And what is the cost of something that you can't get for any price? Infinite.

Which is why government-run/socialist systems are inevitably the most expensive in the world.

Another way to put this is, the government can provide us with cheap/free stuff as long as it is heavily rationed.

Originally posted by spruce112358
Exactly. And what is the cost of something that you can't get for any price? [b]Infinite.

Which is why government-run/socialist systems are inevitably the most expensive in the world.

Another way to put this is, the government can provide us with cheap/free stuff as long as it is heavily rationed.[/b]

So the cost of education in Finland is infinite. Enlightening.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
So the cost of education in Finland is infinite. Enlightening.

My point is that it's been claimed that education in Finland is free or low-cost. I claim when you are evaluating the cost of something, the fact that some people cannot get it regardless of what they are willing to pay has to be taken into account. Especially when you are comparing to a system where those services might be more "expensive" but more available.

If Finns really know how to provide great education at low cost, far better than anyone else, then it makes sense that they would expand their business and welcome students from all over the world. Why not? It's no different than selling a cell phone -- they'd be coming out ahead.

Originally posted by spruce112358
My point is that it's been claimed that education in Finland is free or low-cost. I claim when you are evaluating the cost of something, the fact that some people cannot get it regardless of what they are willing to pay has to be taken into account. Especially when you are comparing to a system where those services might be more "expensive" but more ava ...[text shortened]... world. Why not? It's no different than selling a cell phone -- they'd be coming out ahead.

For some reason you're misconstruing the obvious: nobody claims that education in Finland costs nothing, but it is free of charge. And the fact that Finns are very highly educated on the whole -- with a high standard of living -- is evidence that the system works, 'hidden costs' notwithstanding. It's quite obvious, too, that higher education is much less accessible in the USA than in Finland, because it is not free. Yes, it is right there and available, but only for those who can afford it.

As far as I can tell, Finland does indeed welcome students from around the world. The cost isn't very much, either, although the students have to pay for their living expenses, so contributing to the Finnish economy -- which has been 'coming out ahead' for some time, as far as I can gather.

Viva Finland.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
For some reason you're misconstruing the obvious: nobody claims that education in Finland costs nothing, but it is free of charge. And the fact that Finns are very highly educated on the whole -- with a high standard of living -- is evidence that the system works, 'hidden costs' notwithstanding. It's quite obvious, too, that higher education is much le ...[text shortened]... which has been 'coming out ahead' for some time, as far as I can gather.

Viva Finland.

With an income tax rate between 30% & 50% depending on total income, it better be 'free'.😀

Neither system is perfect.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
For some reason you're misconstruing the obvious: nobody claims that education in Finland costs nothing, but it is free of charge. And the fact that Finns are very highly educated on the whole -- with a high standard of living -- is evidence that the system works, 'hidden costs' notwithstanding. It's quite obvious, too, that higher education is much le ...[text shortened]... which has been 'coming out ahead' for some time, as far as I can gather.

Viva Finland.

I'm not intentionally being obtuse. I'm challenging assumptions. The argument has been made that the Finnish approach to education is better than that in the US because it is good quality, cheaper, AND free of charge.

I'm not questioning that it is good quality and free of charge. I'm questioning how do you know it is cheaper? And what does it mean to say something is "cheap" if you qualify for it and could pay for it but, due to rationing, you still can't get it?

A free market system doesn't tolerate unsatisfied demand like that -- the supply begins to expand. That has definitely happened in the US with more and more colleges and universities -- giving more and more access. Some now even offer 'distance learning' over the internet, which may in the end be a 'game changer' in terms of how people do their degrees. Do the Finns do the same?

My issue with the US system is that the tuition cost is being inflated by government loans that interfere with normal supply/demand. The Finns avoid that -- fine. But I question whether a fundamentally non-competitive system will produce the lowest possible cost (and innovation) compared to the more free-market based one.

Originally posted by spruce112358
I'm not intentionally being obtuse. I'm challenging assumptions. The argument has been made that the Finnish approach to education is better than that in the US because it is good quality, cheaper, AND free of charge.

I think the best proof is in the results. Finns are (quite a lot more) more highly educated than Americans -- as are Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Dutch ... Not too sure about the French 🙂

Free market education tends to produce only what's good for the market, rather than producing well educated people.

Whatever you do, don't put an economist in charge of the education department. That said, the World Economic Forum ranks Finland number one in the world in terms of tertiary education.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
It was posted by "Beaner" in September 2008.

At 4:20! OMG! It's a sign!!!!

*inhales deeply*