Originally posted by vivify
You say the solution is permanent absence; wouldn't that just make things worse for Iraqis, rather than better? Or do you believe the region would just go back to whatever state is considered normal for them in due time?

My wording was poor; the permanent absence of US troops from Iraq is necessary for a solution but it is not sufficient. The only people who can solve the problems of Iraq (problems vastly exacerbated by the invasion and occupation) are the Iraqi People themselves. They should be given that chance.

The political problem is that Obama's position that ousting Saddam was a mistake but that fighting ISIS is absolutely necessary makes little rational sense. Saddam clearly had far more blood on his hands than ISIS ever has; by what moral calculus must we "protect" the Iraqi People from ISIS (keeping in mind that many members of ISIS are Iraqi) but should not have "protected" them from a bloodthirsty tyrant like Saddam? Of course, once you cast your country in the role of "protector" of people in whatever country you please, you get a permanent state of war. In this case, the war has sprung back against US and other Western civilians as our selected enemies cannot match us in conventional weapons and thus decide to strike back using the asymmetric means of terrorist attacks against civilians. The result is the war makes people in both the countries we choose to fight in AND in our own less safe.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What I am saying is:

The Korean War did not "free" South Korea; the country was ruled by brutal dictators for decades after the war.


Your claim that the US "freed" South Korea is false; the South Korean People eventually freed themselves. Hopefully some day the North Korean People will also.

Don't be so obtuse.

If you lived in Korea, would you want the US to save you from North Korea or would you be just as good with North Korea ruling over you?

Originally posted by no1marauder
My wording was poor; the permanent absence of US troops from Iraq is necessary for a solution but it is not sufficient. The only people who can solve the problems of Iraq (problems vastly exacerbated by the invasion and occupation) are the Iraqi People themselves. They should be given that chance.

The political problem is that Obama's po ...[text shortened]... lt is the war makes people in both the countries we choose to fight in AND in our own less safe.

It seems you're right. From last year:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/iraq-we-didnt-ask-u-s-ground-operations-n452756

The Iraqi government said Wednesday it didn't ask for — and doesn't need — the "direct action on the ground" promised by the Pentagon.

The revelation came a day after Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said the U.S. may carry out more unilateral ground raids — like last week's rescue operation to free hostages — in Iraq to target ISIS militants.

Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi's spokesman told NBC News that any military involvement in the country must be cleared through the Iraqi government just as U.S.-led airstrikes are.

Related: U.S. Commando Dies in Raid to Free Hostages From ISIS

"'This is an Iraqi affair and the government did not ask the U.S. Department of Defense to be involved in direct operations,' spokesman Sa'ad al-Hadithi told NBC News. 'We have enough soldiers on the ground.'"