@no1marauder
Not even if it is proven he has TS/SCI docs which he should NEVER have outside a secure room? It goes, you get someone to give you an SCI document, which will be under lock and key in some briefcase, go to a SCIF room, open the document there, read it, the carrier puts the doc back in the case, locks it, takes it back to the vault.
It IS a VERY serious issue if ANYONE has that document outside of a SCIF.
Do you really understand that?
That was explained to me when I got MY TS clearance.
Why are you ignoring the national security issue here?
There is no WELL MAYBE TRUMP just declassified X, Y, and Z. TS/SCI docs he does not EVER have the authority to singlehandedly declassify those docs, that takes POTUS and CONGRESS TOGETHER to declassify stuff at that level of secrecy.
I was just a grunt fixing radars and such on a bomber and maybe transfering to crypto which didn't warrant me getting such a clearance above TOP SECRET.
Why do you not understand that part, that POTUS CANNOT declassify such a high clearance as SCI?
Do you also not understand why FBI and DOJ would be EXTREMELY concerned if it was shown there were SCI documents NOT IN A VAULT but in somebodies BASEMENT where any spy could look at them photo them with a cell phone and walk away, you are not concerned with that possibility especially considering it almost happened once they know about, that Chinese female spy trying to get into Mar A Lago?
Has everyone here gone stark raving BANANAS? One thing VERY clear, if it was OBABMA who had done that, the ultrarightwingnut senators would be screaming at the top of their lungs, HANG OBABMA or KENNEDY or ANY dem, but when a 'beloved' would be dictator does it, FAKE NEWS, WITCH HUNT, PLANTED EVIDENCE.
What the FUK is wrong with this picture?
@no1marauder saidYes I agree, but then why the raid? If I understand the events, team Trump had already returned some docs in response to a subpoena, had since allowed full access to the remaining docs, and locked them as requested. If the feds wanted more docs why not just send another subpoena instead of 30 agents? It's just too bizarre to take at face value.
I find it hard to believe that the DOJ will press charges based on the Donald having some documents he shouldn't have. I don't really want to speculate though.
@Sleepyguy
Because YOU are a Trumpite and therefore believe every word of a Psychopath POTUS, your god king Trump.
NO POTUS can singlehandedly declassify SCI level documents, they come of of a vault to a locked briefcase, to the POTUS who goes to a SCIF and THERE and ONLY there does the messenger unlock the folder or briefcase and POTUS reads the stuff, then back into the locked case, and back to the vault.
AND the stuff Trump had were COPIES. Does THAT mean anything to you, like who was the second person, someone with access to UTLRA TOP SECRET documents, either giving the original to Trump who then copied it himself or that dude copied it and secretly put the original back in a vault.
If something like that happened in Russia, how long do you think either of those dudes would be alive ten minutes after authorities found out about it?
THAT is how seriously intel folks think about such breaches of security and breach it was BIGTIME.
AT THE VERY LEAST those documents need to be in a secure location NOT A FUKKING BASEMENT IN MAR A LAGO, as much as you WISH it is a nothing issue I can guarantee it is a BIG issue with the intel folks who might have papers talking about the locations of nukes maybe in other countries, where spies could access such data with just a cell phone, where a Chinese female spy almost got into Mar A Lago already so there are NO DOUBT many other bad actors trying and maybe succeeding in finding TS/SCI papers and taking pictures of them on their cell phone and those documents would be VERY valuable to ANY enemy of the US, but I suppose that means nothing to you either, if it doesn't concern you, you are in on the conspiracy to spy out that stuff.
I had to take an oath to the constitution and country when I got MY TS clearance and a full bird explained about the higher stuff like SCI level which was WAY above my pay grade in the USAF.
But I guess none of that matters to you.
@no1marauder saidhttps://www.newsweek.com/heres-what-donald-trump-being-investigated-1733367
I find it hard to believe that the DOJ will press charges based on the Donald having some documents he shouldn't have. I don't really want to speculate though.
The warrant, which became public on Friday afternoon, cited potential violations of federal laws 18 USC 2071—Concealment, removal or mutilation, 18 USC 793—Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information, and 18 USC 1519—Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations.
Notably, 18 USC 793 is part of the Espionage Act, which legal experts had suggested over the past couple days Trump could allegedly have violated.
Federal law 18 USC 2071 carries a penalty of a fine or imprisonment for up to three years, or both. Meanwhile, 18 USC 1519 can result in a fine or imprisonment for up to 20 years, or both, and 18 USC 793 can lead to imprisonment for up to 10 years and/or a fine. Combined, the three alleged violations could result in 33 years in prison.
@vivify saidSo do you think it's likely to be proven that Trump knowingly and willfully violated these laws when he didn't pack up these boxes himself, has already responded to a subpoena regarding these documents, and then subsequently continued to provide access to them?
https://www.newsweek.com/heres-what-donald-trump-being-investigated-1733367The warrant, which became public on Friday afternoon, cited potential violations of federal laws 18 USC 2071—Concealment, removal or mutilation, 18 USC 793—Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information, and 18 USC 1519—Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal inv ...[text shortened]... rs and/or a fine. Combined, the three alleged violations could result in 33 years in prison.
@Sleepyguy
Which planet are you from again? Europa? There were TWENTY SEVEN boxes and he gave back FIFTEEN and it was a whistle blower alerted FBI and DOJ of the rest NEVER given voluntarily.
So all you are doing is REPUKING the Trump lies.
The remaining boxes were in discussions for MONTHS and Trump refused to let them go, he knew all about them you can be sure, which is why it was a warrant and not a supoena so it was a surprise not giving the staff time to dump the stuff in the ocean.
There was one reason and one reason only Trump wanted those docs, SELL TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER.
Top secret/SCI docs are a national security issue and YOU should be worried about Trump stealing those boxes.
It is a total lie he did not know they were there. That is OBVIOUS to anyone not in the Trump cult.
@sleepyguy saidHow does Trump not know he has classified nuclear weapons documents? Did they accidently fall from a shelf into his boxes?
So do you think it's likely to be proven that Trump knowingly and willfully violated these laws when he didn't pack up these boxes himself, has already responded to a subpoena regarding these documents, and then subsequently continued to provide access to them?
@sonhouse said:
Do you also not understand why FBI and DOJ would be EXTREMELY concerned if it
was shown there were SCI documents NOT IN A VAULT but in somebodies BASEMENT
After all that you explained, the FBI should be shocked at how Trump could get those docs out in the first place.
you claim that after a person is done viewing the docs, they are then placed back in a safe. Really?!
Looks like a breakdown in security here to me. that is even more disturbing. How did this ever happen?
A lot to learn here
@sonhouse said
Which planet are you from again? Europa? There were TWENTY SEVEN boxes and he gave back FIFTEEN
and it was a whistle blower alerted FBI and DOJ of the rest NEVER given voluntarily.
Tell me something... I mean seriuously...
WHY did this take a whistle blower?? How the hell did American intel NOT know already that Trump had these docs???
Something seriously wrong with the narrative.
@vivify saidpenetrating question, isn't it. Now look at it from another point of view:
How does Trump not know he has classified nuclear weapons documents? Did they accidently fall from a shelf into his boxes?
How did American intel not know Trump had classified docs, docs - that according to @sonhouse, cannot be removed
or signed out from the storage vault where they are kept. Even if they allowed the docs to be taken out,
they still should know where those docs are at all times, *and* they should have Trump signing off on their removal.
What's really wrong with this scenario?? Obviously, if you are anti-Trump, you put all the blame on him. I get it.
But try to be real.
@earl-of-trumps saidYour point is that such records couldn't have been taken unless it was with the knowledge and consent of the NARA, right?
How did American intel not know Trump had classified docs, docs - that according to @sonhouse, cannot be removed
or signed out from the storage vault where they are kept. Even if they allowed the docs to be taken out,
they still should know where those docs are at all times, *and* they should have Trump signing off on their removal.
What's really wrong with this ...[text shortened]... rio?? Obviously, if you are anti-Trump, you put all the blame on him. I get it.
But try to be real.
Keep in mind that the FBI had to prove to a judge that a possible criminal act had occurred in order to get a warrant. They had prove that such records were illegally taken and not "signed out". The judge obviously agreed, which is why the FBI was able to obtain a warrant.
@sleepyguy saidBecause Trump didn't obey the earlier subpoena which commanded he hand over all classified materials.
Yes I agree, but then why the raid? If I understand the events, team Trump had already returned some docs in response to a subpoena, had since allowed full access to the remaining docs, and locked them as requested. If the feds wanted more docs why not just send another subpoena instead of 30 agents? It's just too bizarre to take at face value.
The real question is what classified materials he didn't hand over and most importantly: why? I don't think the DOJ is going to prosecute him for merely having materials he shouldn't have.
@Sleepyguy
Those docs were COPIES you dolt. That meant he had help getting the docs. What the FUK is wrong with you defending the indefensible? EVERYONE here knows full well if that had been Obama getting those docs ALL the repub ZOMBIES would be screaming at the top of your lungs, HANG OBAMA, well they do that anyway because he is black but besides that they would scream bloody murder and you KNOW IT.
@vivify saidWhy do you believe he has such documents? Because WaPo has regurgitated something from an anonymous source? How many more times are you going to fall for this routine? It's like Charlie Brown and the football. One of these days...
How does Trump not know he has classified nuclear weapons documents? Did they accidently fall from a shelf into his boxes?
@Earl-of-Trumps
Oh, you mean a bunch of boxes go out of the WH and you are to automatically assume they are top secret or higher documents? I guess the guards are supposed to have Xray vision......
THEY WERE COPIES YOU IDIOT. There were no missing docs in the vaults, that would have been a major clue. It is clear Trump had help and I imagine that dude got a nice paycheck.