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Debates Forum

  1. 03 Aug '10 02:24
    Hi All

    Well I guess we have sank as low as we can go, after me losing my job, my husbands business closing down, due to no work, he is a master welder, but the jobs dried up, no one has any money,

    Today we received out five day notice for eviction as we have ran out of money, had to cancel the neuro appointment again for tomorrow, as i cannot afford to see him,

    Tried calling all the help lines, no help to be got anywhere, way too many people in the same boat that we are right now,

    I never thought in a million years this would happen to us, surprising how fast one can go from being OK to being broke,

    Right now we are trying to find some where to go, but being broke does not help to find anywhere, just so depressed, right now, i really do not know what to do,

    We have just found a place to put all our horses, and the poor dogs we have had since puppies have to go to the pound, I feel like a real low life , as these animals relied on us, we took them on, now where are they gonna end up

    I cannot imagine living on the streets with MS, sometimes i can hardly walk, i guess we can sleep in the back of my husbands truck, in the desert, i dont know if this is even legal,

    Geesh what a mess to be in,

    Sorry this is just a rant, as i know thousands of people are the same boat we are in

    I will probably be off line in the next couple of days, I would just like to thank everyone for being there for me with all the advice you have given me over the last few months,

    Perhaps one day when we get back on our feet, I will be able to get back on line again,

    Until then thanks again to all


    Man, I see this everyday on the MS forum. There are so many more people I don't see or hear about...... All that is missing is Jim Morrison singing the Doors Song "The End" Usually I can come up with something to say, but it's all gone....
    How the Heck do we help people?????
    I'm sorry, this is the last one of these...... live your life each day, like it's your last one
    Namaste....
  2. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 02:42
    And the libertarians say... "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" That is, unless the MS prevents you from reaching your boots without falling over. That this is happening in our nation is simply disgraceful.
  3. 03 Aug '10 04:59
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    I'm sorry, this is the last one of these...... live your life each day, like it's your last one
    Thats why the quoted poster was in so much trouble. If you don't plan ahead, you end up in trouble.
    Someone had horses, dogs, a truck, a house, but not enough savings to keep them going for a few months while finding another job. She probably got too reliant on credit cards.
  4. 03 Aug '10 06:16
    Originally posted by bbarr
    And the libertarians say... "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" That is, unless the MS prevents you from reaching your boots without falling over. That this is happening in our nation is simply disgraceful.
    But the statist's solution is not to let people plan to save or to improve regulations that create a rainy day fund, it is to say don't worry anymore about planning for the future as we will simply have the government buy you somes boots, put your boots on you, and tie them too.
  5. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 06:31
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    But the statist's solution is not to let people plan to save or to improve regulations that create a rainy day fund, it is to say don't worry anymore about planning for the future as we will simply have the government buy you somes boots, put your boots on you, and tie them too.
    Please provide one example of a current politician or political philosopher that advocates prohibiting citizens from saving their money.
  6. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 06:42
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Thats why the quoted poster was in so much trouble. If you don't plan ahead, you end up in trouble.
    Someone had horses, dogs, a truck, a house, but not enough savings to keep them going for a few months while finding another job. She probably got too reliant on credit cards.
    You don't have nearly enough evidence to come to the conclusion that it was a lack of savings or planning ahead that led to this unfortunate result. Do you understand how catastrophically expensive this sort of medical treatment can be?
  7. 03 Aug '10 06:55
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Please provide one example of a current politician or political philosopher that advocates prohibiting citizens from saving their money.
    Obama said he is against a rainy day fund. In fact, he promised no rainy day fund. Why, I have no idea. What does he offer... make that force upon everyone who has a health savings account growing? Forced nationalized/socialized healthcare. Good luck to Obama but he is not for you saving so much as he is for giving out bread in the streets.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    03 Aug '10 06:59
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama said he is against a rainy day fund. In fact, he promised no rainy day fund. Why, I have no idea. What does he offer... make that force upon everyone who has a health savings account growing? Forced nationalized/socialized healthcare. Good luck to Obama but he is not for you saving so much as he is for giving out bread in the streets.
    How is Obama's opposition to a rainy day fund an example of prohibiting citizens from saving their money?
  9. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 07:03
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama said he is against a rainy day fund. In fact, he promised no rainy day fund. Why, I have no idea. What does he offer... make that force upon everyone who has a health savings account growing? Forced nationalized/socialized healthcare. Good luck to Obama but he is not for you saving so much as he is for giving out bread in the streets.
    Do you have a source for this allegation?
  10. 03 Aug '10 07:13
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Do you have a source for this allegation?
    It was broadcast live on TV in the US within months of his taking office, the day he said it.

    Didn't record it, but I remember, because I had been telling people that I believed that a rainy day fund was necessary and should have been built up in good times (discussed over the previous days in discussing the crashing economy). I must not have been the only fiscally responsible person grumbling about that because it became a political issue that Obama addressed. He wanted deficit-spending rathern than starting discussions on rainy day savings.
  11. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 07:17
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    It was broadcast live on TV in the US within months of his taking office, the day he said it.

    Didn't record it, but I remember, because I had been telling people that I believed that a rainy day fund was necessary and should have been built up in good times (discussed over the previous days in discussing the crashing economy). I must not have been th ...[text shortened]... addressed. He wanted deficit-spending rathern than starting discussions on rainy day savings.
    So Obama said, on live television, that he opposed individual citizens saving money? You seriously think that if I put a few hundred dollars a month into my savings account, Obama would criticize me for it?
  12. 03 Aug '10 07:37
    Originally posted by bbarr
    So Obama said, on live television, that he opposed individual citizens saving money? You seriously think that if I put a few hundred dollars a month into my savings account, Obama would criticize me for it?
    He's actually tax it and leave laughing all the way to the bank. But that's Democrats for you.
    Not that the recent Republican administrations were able to keep their own spending in control either, so they would cut taxes on your few hundred dollars and borrow more money too.
    I am disappointed in Obama though, he did criticize the rainy day fund discussions and has us in record deficits, a pattern he did not change.

    The point is that pro-government-spending apologists and politicians on the left do more to discourage saving by providing such things as healthcare and forcing higher taxes on savings, wherease examples like China where there is no social security people have a high savings rate for their retirement where nobody is providing it for them. Obama's not increasing social security, but he is adding a ton of other new benefits.

    I suspect you get the basic points and understand them. I would be suprised if you relied on solely the standard that Obama didn't actually put in writing that citizens cannot save by decree of his. That's just not a realistic standard.
  13. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 07:55
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    He's actually tax it and leave laughing all the way to the bank. But that's Democrats for you.
    Not that the recent Republican administrations were able to keep their own spending in control either, so they would cut taxes on your few hundred dollars and borrow more money too.
    I am disappointed in Obama though, he did criticize the rainy day fund dis ...[text shortened]... writing that citizens cannot save by decree of his. That's just not a realistic standard.
    Wait, this is hilarious. You actually think that the federal government is providing health care? You know that health care is provided by doctors, right? And that the health care bill mandates that citizens purchase health insurance from private corporations, right? And that there is no public option, right? Perhaps you think we should get rid of Medicare. But that is the typical disgraceful cruelty that leads to posts like the one that kicked off this thread.

    Further, equally hilariously, you think that there is no social security in China. Do you just make this stuff up as you go? Educate yourself:

    http://www.gov.cn/english/official/2005-07/28/content_18024.htm
  14. 03 Aug '10 07:55
    Originally posted by bbarr
    You don't have nearly enough evidence to come to the conclusion that it was a lack of savings or planning ahead that led to this unfortunate result. Do you understand how catastrophically expensive this sort of medical treatment can be?
    You are correct. My judgement could have been grossly unfair in this case.
    I read it as another American caught out by the credit crunch.
    I was specifically addressing Hughs comment about living each day like its the last and essentially not planning ahead.
    But the original post does seem to indicate that the family in question has made some serious errors in financial planning. They should not have waited until getting an eviction notice before looking for cheaper accommodation.
    I fully admit that I too have made similar errors in the past - it is difficult to deal with a declining income, we seem to always expect our income to get better and when it goes down, we don't cut expenses, we start borrowing from a hoped for future improvement. This is an error.
  15. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    03 Aug '10 08:00
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You are correct. My judgement could have been grossly unfair in this case.
    I read it as another American caught out by the credit crunch.
    I was specifically addressing Hughs comment about living each day like its the last and essentially not planning ahead.
    But the original post does seem to indicate that the family in question has made some serious er ...[text shortened]... e don't cut expenses, we start borrowing from a hoped for future improvement. This is an error.
    Yeah, you could be right. But the bleeding-heart liberal in me says even if they didn't plan as well as they should (and not many of us planned effectively for the current recession, since it was a function of economic shenanigans most barely understand), nobody should be forced to mortgage their whole future because of medical bills, or have to live in their truck in the middle of the desert.