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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 29 Nov '09 17:18
    Right ... so first, Bibi offered a "two-state solution" wherein the Palestinian "state" would not have Jerusalem, not have control over its airspace or borders, not be allowed to dismantle the settlements, not have an army, not have international support, and must be willing to surrender its sovereignty to Israel at any given time.

    Then, Bibi offers his "settlement freeze" plan: construction on settlements by Israelis in the West Bank (not Jerusalem) would end for three years EXCEPT for the settlements already planned to be built or in the process of being built at the time of the beginning of the freeze AND schools, synagogues, and hospitals that are not necessarily planned AND IN ADDITION the Israelis would continue making settlement plans during the "freeze" that would be implemented when it's over without question.

    Does anyone else here think that this is an absolute farce, or is it just me?
  2. 29 Nov '09 18:35
    well, they gave back gaza, what did they get in return?
  3. 29 Nov '09 18:52
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    well, they gave back gaza, what did they get in return?
    A cookie.
  4. 29 Nov '09 19:04
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Does anyone else here think that this is an absolute farce, or is it just me?
    I do too.
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    29 Nov '09 19:15
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Right ... so first, Bibi offered a "two-state solution" wherein the Palestinian "state" would not have Jerusalem, not have control over its airspace or borders, not be allowed to dismantle the settlements, not have an army, not have international support, and must be willing to surrender its sovereignty to Israel at any given time.

    Then, Bibi offers his " ...[text shortened]... stion.

    Does anyone else here think that this is an absolute farce, or is it just me?
    The whole Israeli attitude towards the Palestinians is a farce.
    They've been trying to get them to leave since Plan D.
  6. 29 Nov '09 19:17
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    well, they gave back gaza, what did they get in return?
    "Gave back" meaning imposed a siege and a series of massacres on. Plus refusing to withdraw from the settlement of Sderot.
  7. 03 Dec '09 01:50
    Originally posted by scherzo
    "Gave back" meaning imposed a siege and a series of massacres on. Plus refusing to withdraw from the settlement of Sderot.
    "gave back" before gaza started firing rockets at israel thus incurring a justified invasion.
  8. 03 Dec '09 02:08
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    "gave back" before gaza started firing rockets at israel thus incurring a justified invasion.
    Which was preceded by ... what? Come on. You can do it.
  9. 03 Dec '09 02:23
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war#2008_lull

    2008 lull

    On June 19, 2008, an Egyptian-brokered “lull” or pause in hostilities between Israel and Hamas went into effect.[48] The term “lull” is a translation of the Arabic term Tahdia.[49] According to The New York Times, neither side fully respected the terms of the cease-fire.[50]

    The agreement required Hamas to end rocket and mortar attacks on Israel and to enforce the lull throughout Gaza. In addition, Israel insisted that the agreement includes an end to Hamas's military buildup in Gaza and movement toward the release of Corporal Shalit.[51] In exchange, Hamas expected the blockade to end, commerce in Gaza to resume, and truck shipments to be restored to 2005 levels, which was between 500 and 600 trucks per day.[50][52] Israel tied easing of the blockade to a reduction in rocket fire and gradually re-opened supply lines and permitted around 90 daily truck shipments to enter Gaza, up from around 70 per day.[53] The above increase in supply trucks never began to approach what Hamas thought it was going to get.[50] Hamas criticized Israel for its continued blockade[54] while Israel accused Hamas of continued weapons smuggling via tunnels to Egypt and pointed to continued rocket attacks.[50]

    The UN recorded seven IDF violations of the ceasefire between June 20 and June 26, and three violations by Palestinian groups not affiliated with Hamas between June 23 and 26.[55] On December 18, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, reported 185 Israeli violations during the lull period.[56] The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center reported a total of 223 rockets and 139 mortar shells fired from Gaza during the lull, including 20 rockets and 18 mortar shells before November 4.[57] It noted that "Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire" until November 4, when the ceasefire was "seriously eroded."[58] Rocket fire decreased by 98 percent in the four and a half months between June 18 and November 4 when compared to the four and a half months preceding the ceasefire.[47]

    Hamas denied responsibility for the rocket fire during the 'lull'. However, Human Rights Watch reported that while Hamas security forces demonstrated an ability to curb rocket fire, some people detained for firing rockets were summarily released without explanation.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    03 Dec '09 02:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Which was preceded by ... what? Come on. You can do it.
    No he can't. He'll just cut and paste something from wikipedia.

    edit: whoops. and he did. he beat me to it.
  11. 03 Dec '09 02:48
    Originally posted by FMF
    No he can't. He'll just cut and paste something from wikipedia.

    edit: whoops. and he did. he beat me to it.
    pinata!
  12. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    03 Dec '09 14:59
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    "gave back" before gaza started firing rockets at israel thus incurring a justified invasion.
    Well, besides the fact that according to international law the Palestinians were firing rockets into Palestinian territory.

    Oh you forgot? Israel ethnically cleansed that area and stole the land; the UN hasn't recognised it yet.
  13. 03 Dec '09 22:13
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Well, besides the fact that according to international law the Palestinians were firing rockets into Palestinian territory.

    Oh you forgot? Israel ethnically cleansed that area and stole the land; the UN hasn't recognised it yet.
    That really pisses me off, but it doesn't surprise me.

    Sderot is a SETTLEMENT, people.

    I also want to say to zeeblebot that on November 4, Israel broke the ceasefire.