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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member StTito
    The Mullverine
    18 May '09 20:35
    Just curious, why do most US citizens on this forum who claim "not to be a republican or democrat" tend to be very conservative? Are the republicans not conservative enough for you? I consider myself a Dem but I can't say I'm overly thrilled with all of my parties policies. My father is a Rep in the economic sense but not the bible beating sense, yet he is a proud member of the GOP. Not saying you have to "conform" but what are you all's beliefs?
  2. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    18 May '09 20:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by StTito
    Are the republicans not conservative enough for you?
    It's that too many of them are hardly distinguishable from democrats.
  3. 18 May '09 20:54
    I'm fortunate enough to be part of a multi-party democratic system, so I get to choose one which is closer to my personal beliefs, which could be most accurately described as social-liberalism; e.g. emphasis on personal liberty, equality of oppurtunity and free markets.

    It's a pity the US has a two-party system, because libertarians could really play a significant role in US politics in a more reasonable system (I don't like libertarianism, but I notice quite a lot of people on these forums which are more progressive on moral issues and right-wing on economic issues).
  4. 18 May '09 20:55 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by StTito
    Just curious, why do most US citizens on this forum who claim "not to be a republican or democrat" tend to be very conservative? Are the republicans not conservative enough for you? I consider myself a Dem but I can't say I'm overly thrilled with all of my parties policies. My father is a Rep in the economic sense but not the bible beating sense, yet he is a ...[text shortened]... proud member of the GOP. Not saying you have to "conform" but what are you all's beliefs?
    Liberals have a party, conservatives don't.

    BTW: You might want to ask your dad how the GOP have been conservatives in the economic sense. In fact, what about the social issues. The Republicans ruled the roost for years yet abortion never changed as the law of the land and as far as gay marriage, even Obama is not in favor of that. LOL. Both parties are too much alike.
  5. Standard member StTito
    The Mullverine
    18 May '09 21:02
    Originally posted by whodey
    Liberals have a party, conservatives don't.

    BTW: You might want to ask your dad how the GOP have been conservatives in the economic sense. In fact, what about the social issues. The Republicans ruled the roost for years yet abortion never changed as the law of the land and as far as gay marriage, even Obama is not in favor of that. LOL. Both parties are too much alike.
    He would say "they used to be!" So if you could make a party what would be the principals?
  6. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    18 May '09 21:03
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I'm fortunate enough to be part of a multi-party democratic system, so I get to choose one which is closer to my personal beliefs, which could be most accurately described as social-liberalism; e.g. emphasis on personal liberty, equality of oppurtunity and free markets.

    It's a pity the US has a two-party system, because libertarians could really play ...[text shortened]... n these forums which are more progressive on moral issues and right-wing on economic issues).
    Agreed. I'm sick and tired of having to choose between a liberal and an uber-liberal. This last election put an end to me voting for the lesser of two evils, and I suspect I'm not alone. Maybe we'll get that 3rd party someday.
  7. 18 May '09 21:11
    Originally posted by StTito
    Just curious, why do most US citizens on this forum who claim "not to be a republican or democrat" tend to be very conservative? Are the republicans not conservative enough for you? I consider myself a Dem but I can't say I'm overly thrilled with all of my parties policies. My father is a Rep in the economic sense but not the bible beating sense, yet he is a ...[text shortened]... proud member of the GOP. Not saying you have to "conform" but what are you all's beliefs?
    could you give an example or two of these U.S. citizens your referring too?
  8. 18 May '09 21:12 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by StTito
    He would say "they used to be!" So if you could make a party what would be the principals?
    The first order of business would be to break the monopoly of the two party system. Then again, perhaps it has always been a one party system., but I digress.

    To form a third party, what we need is a charismatic leader like Obama/Clinton/Ross Perot etc. Yes I said Ross Perot. Before he dropped out of the race for the Presidency, he was actually in the lead. In addition, all it would take is for them to take up the issues that neither the Repuclian nor Democratic parties seem to want to address and that are popular with the American people. For example, protecting the borders is a very popular issue as is frugal governmental spending yet both parties ignore them completly. I think if a 3rd party President were to then take office the establishment of a 3rd party might work but not until then.

    Getting back to crazy Ross dropping out of the race at one time, I heard him say that he or his family was threatened in some way. If so, perhaps going against the two party establishment is like going against the mob. It would help explain their monopoly on the countires politics.

    Edit: I really miss old crazy Ross. I miss him saying, "Is this how the games played?" and whipping out those charts that are bigger than he was. I think perhaps he could have made a difference :'(
  9. Standard member StTito
    The Mullverine
    18 May '09 21:12
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Agreed. I'm sick and tired of having to choose between a liberal and an uber-liberal. This last election put an end to me voting for the lesser of two evils, and I suspect I'm not alone. Maybe we'll get that 3rd party someday.
    so the republicans are not conservative enough? Again What would your party look like?
  10. Standard member StTito
    The Mullverine
    18 May '09 21:17
    Originally posted by whodey
    The first order of business would be to break the monopoly of the two party system, but I digress. Then again, perhaps it has always been a one party system. To do so, what we need is a charismatic leader like Obama/Clinton/Ross Perot etc. Yes I said Ross Perot. Before he dropped out of the race for the Presidency, he was actually in the lead. In additio ...[text shortened]... is like going against the mob. It would help explain their monopoly on the countires politics.
    Our county has had more than two parties in the past (ie Republican was a third), it may be more intrenched today but not inconceivable.
    So your party:
    Stronger borders
    frugal gov

    anything else?
  11. 18 May '09 21:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Agreed. I'm sick and tired of having to choose between a liberal and an uber-liberal. This last election put an end to me voting for the lesser of two evils, and I suspect I'm not alone. Maybe we'll get that 3rd party someday.
    Agreed!! If most feel as we do, the Republican party can now be declared officially dead. The Dems can then go play with themselves.
  12. 18 May '09 21:24 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by StTito
    Our county has had more than two parties in the past (ie Republican was a third), it may be more intrenched today but not inconceivable.
    So your party:
    Stronger borders
    frugal gov

    anything else?
    How about a sane energy policy? Both McCain and Obama are all exited about the soon to be cap and trade policy. All it will do is increase our tax burden by increasing our energy costs by some 20-50%. It will be the biggest tax increase in US hisotry and simply go into the pockets of those in Washington. Oh yea, some of it will go to "research". LOL.

    Really this issue is both an economic as well as a national security issue. It is why we are in Iraq and our dependence on fossil fuels means we are dependent on oil producing countries that hate the US and we are at the mercy of OPEC. Two things we can do is in the short term use the abundance of natural gas in the US as well as oil reserves off shore and Alaska. Long term we should be investing in building nuclear power plants which wiould take some time to build. Instead, what is now being proposed is to make fossil fuels unaffordable to try and prompt the "free (government run) market" to find other energy sources.......other than nuclear power of course. Its complete madness!!

    Secondly, how about finding a way to attract business back to the US instead of complaining about them going over seas to compete globally? Dropping the corporate tax might be a step in the right direction and/or tax incentives to be in the US.
  13. 18 May '09 21:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    How about a sane energy policy? Both McCain and Obama are all exited about the soon to be cap and trade policy. All it will do is increase our tax burden by increasing our energy costs by some 20-50%. It will be the biggest tax increase in US hisotry and simply go into the pockets of those in Washington. Oh yea, some of it will go to "research". LOL.

    ...[text shortened]... mpt the "free (government run) market" to find other energy sources. Its complete madness!!
    the enviromentalist would be all over a canidate like that
  14. 18 May '09 21:32 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    the enviromentalist would be all over a canidate like that
    They have a loud voice but are small in number to those who realize we need a viable clean affordable energy source. The only alternative is for the country to wind up like California. One day we will go to flip on the lights and none will be there. The US has tunred to the same kind of liberal thinking that has bankrupted California and caused them to have an energy crisis. God help us all!! Just look at all the corporations as well as its citizens leaving in mass and going to more affordabe and conservative states like Texas.

    Do you really think that the US can't safely convert to nuclear power? Its not like I'm advocating the death of thousands of American lives nor the destruction of the environment. If France can seemingly do it safely as well as a few places in the US, then why not for the rest of the country? In the long, long term I would devote my energies to researching nuclear fusion. It is a much more environmentally freindly energy source than nuclear fission.
  15. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    18 May '09 21:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by StTito
    so the republicans are not conservative enough? Again What would your party look like?
    I'd say not enough of the Republicans are conservative enough for me, and too many of them are too religious for my taste. I'd say I'm more a Libertarian than anything else (with some tweaks), but I've usually voted Republican because the Libertarians have never had a shot at winning anything and I thought the responsible thing to do was to vote for the lesser of the two evils that might actually win. I'm not going to compromise that way anymore because the Republicans are just taking us to the same place the democrats are. Screw that, and screw them.

    This is, I believe, more or less the sentiment behind all those "tea parties." Those weren't just about taxes, and I think the GOP in its current state is a dead party walking.