Move over, Dr. Fauci, we need some more room on the bus.
So were looking at a critical moment but we also want to start asking some questions. We talk about the hospitalizations.
I have always wondered. We're looking at the hospitalizations of people testing positive in hospitals. Is that person in the hospital because of COVID or did they show up there and are routinely tested and showing positive? They may have been asymptomatic or even just had the sniffles. Someone is in a car accident and they go to the hospital and test positive for COVID while they are there. They’re not there being treated for COVID. Now, someone’s condition can worsen in the hospital. I’m not saying that won’t happen. But I’ve just been doing a random call around to some of the hospital leaders that I touch base with and I’m seeing numbers from 20 to 50%, but we don’t have clear data right now.
Beginning tomorrow were going to be asking all hospitals to break out for us how many people are being hospitalized because of COVID symptoms how many people happen to be testing positive just while there for other treatments. So I think that’s important I just want to always be honest with New Yorkers about how bad this is. Yes the numbers the sheer numbers of people infected or high but I want to see whether or not the hospitalizations correlate with that and I’m anticipating to see at least a certain percentage overall are not related to being treated for COVID.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1478213106258034689
The COVID alarmists must be beside themselves as one left-leaning politician after another after another drops out of their camp and openly says things that would have gotten them banned from Twitter a month ago.
04 Jan 22
@sh76 saidWhat a ridiculous victory lap.
Move over, Dr. Fauci, we need some more room on the bus.
[quote]So were looking at a critical moment but we also want to start asking some questions. We talk about the hospitalizations.
I have always wondered. We're looking at the hospitalizations of people testing positive in hospitals. Is that person in the hospital because of COVID or did they show up there and are rou ...[text shortened]... ut of their camp and openly says things that would have gotten them banned from Twitter a month ago.
I'm fine with getting such data. Doubt it will explain very much of the steep increase in COVID hospitalizations.
And we both know that Hochul isn't anywhere near your DeSantian positions which equate to anti-vaxx and pro spread of the virus.
@sh76 saidThis is like when conservatives alleged Covid was manufactured in a lab vs. when Biden opened an investigation into this: it's all in the motivation.
The COVID alarmists must be beside themselves as one left-leaning politician after another after another drops out of their camp and openly says things that would have gotten them banned from Twitter a month ago.
With Trump supporters, the motivation wasn't facts or truth, it was to demonize China and to distract from Trump's own failures regarding Covid, like when Trump admitted in a recording to lying about it's severity. Also, racism.
Contrast that with Biden, who simply wanted answers.
Same here: what is the motivation behind the governor's statements? Is it because she's a Covid denier like Metal Brain, who will attack any and all evidence of Covid's severity and the need for vaccines or Covid mandates? Or it because there's legitimate reason to believe Covid numbers may be inflated?
Context is everything.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
04 Jan 22
@sh76 saidSounds as if you have too
Move over, Dr. Fauci, we need some more room on the bus.
[quote]So were looking at a critical moment but we also want to start asking some questions. We talk about the hospitalizations.
I have always wondered. We're looking at the hospitalizations of people testing positive in hospitals. Is that person in the hospital because of COVID or did they show up there and are rou ...[text shortened]... ut of their camp and openly says things that would have gotten them banned from Twitter a month ago.
much time on your hands, get a job.
@vivify saidHochul is right to want this info.
This is like when conservatives alleged Covid was manufactured in a lab vs. when Biden opened an investigation into this: it's all in the motivation.
With Trump supporters, the motivation wasn't facts or truth, it was to demonize China and to distract from Trump's own failures regarding Covid, like when Trump admitted in a recording to lying about it's severity. Also, ra ...[text shortened]... ause there's legitimate reason to believe Covid numbers may be inflated?
Context is everything.
But distinguishing between "with" and "because of" got you labelled a conspiracy nut until about 15 minutes ago.
People can pretend to have short memories all they like; but that doesn't change the fact that politicians are now conceding these things only because it's their states spiking. If it were Alabama spiking, anyone questioning whether the spike was really so catastrophic would be pilloried by the CNNs of the world. Surely you must see that.
This has nothing to do with Trump; nor do I hold any quarter for that incompetent semi-traitor. I'm not sure why you'd even bring him up.
04 Jan 22
@jimm619 saidSH doesn't like those progressive policies which might actually help working families but he's kinda embarrassed at cocktail parties by the GOP's fawning over a loudmouth, crass moron like Trump. So he'd like a more respectable right wing hardliner, so like a lot of conservatives he's fallen in love with DeSantis.
Sounds as if you have too
much time on your hands, get a job.
And since DeSantis has adopted anti-vaxx and pro spread of the virus policies to satisfy the not particularly bright GOP base, SH has decided its his duty to troll our little discussion board with thread after thread claiming COVID is no big deal and more to the point, any government policies meant to reduce the spread of the virus are utterly useless infringements on some vague type of "freedom" that apparently includes a "right" to give someone else a contagious, potentially deadly disease.
His posts should be read with these facts in mind.
@sh76 saidI brought up Trump to highlight that what matters is context and motivation behind an action.
Hochul is right to want this info.
But distinguishing between "with" and "because of" got you labelled a conspiracy nut until about 15 minutes ago.
People can pretend to have short memories all they like; but that doesn't change the fact that politicians are now conceding these things only because it's their states spiking. If it were Alabama spiking, anyone questioning w ...[text shortened]... r do I hold any quarter for that incompetent semi-traitor. I'm not sure why you'd even bring him up.
Hochul is motivated by reason; conservatives like Metal Brain are motivated by conspiracy theories and ignorance. Fauci is motivated by data and facts; conservatives like Trump are motivated by profit and self-interest (his businesses lost over 1 billion due to the pandemic).
Put it this way: if a QAnon supporter who believes in lizard people claims, using suspect sources, that Covid numbers are inflated...am I wrong for thinking he's loon? If a respected medical doctor then tells me Covid numbers are inflated, using facts and data from respected organizations, am I a hypocrite for accepting that information?
It's all context.
05 Jan 22
@no1marauder saidCocktail parties? Heh. As if.
SH doesn't like those progressive policies which might actually help working families but he's kinda embarrassed at cocktail parties by the GOP's fawning over a loudmouth, crass moron like Trump. So he'd like a more respectable right wing hardliner, so like a lot of conservatives he's fallen in love with DeSantis.
And since DeSantis has adopted anti-vaxx and pro spread ...[text shortened]... else a contagious, potentially deadly disease.
His posts should be read with these facts in mind.
Maybe one day we can have a serious nuanced discussion about these things, but you always go straight to the ad hominem which really disincentives that sort of thing.
But maybe I've been too shrill. I'll consider that.
05 Jan 22
@sonhouse saidNot trying to duck, but I'm not discussing Trump again unless he runs for President again. Until then, I'll just continue to hope that he goes away by one method or another.
@sh76
Wow, only a SEMI traitor?
He wasn't demanding his zombies go to the capitol to drink tea with biscuits.
He was demanding they overthrow the government pure and simple.
05 Jan 22
@vivify said===QAnon supporter who believes in lizard people claims, using suspect sources, that Covid numbers are inflated===
I brought up Trump to highlight that what matters is context and motivation behind an action.
Hochul is motivated by reason; conservatives like Metal Brain are motivated by conspiracy theories and ignorance. Fauci is motivated by data and facts; conservatives like Trump are motivated by profit and self-interest (his businesses lost over 1 billion due to the pandemic).
...[text shortened]... from respected organizations, am I a hypocrite for accepting that information?
It's all context.
In that case, the QAnon supporter is a loon anyway irrespective of his COVID claims. So calling him a loon is irrelevant to the discussion.
If you call his claim loony, then you're subject to criticism if his claim turns out to be reasonable, even if, in fact, he is a loon for other reasons.
This is an excellent demonstration of the argumentum ad hominem fallacy.
@sh76 saidYou conveniently skipped the part where I mentioned "suspect sources". That should make it clear what I'm driving at; flawed arguments from untrustworthy sources; the type of arguments people like Trump and Metal Brain would make, which is why I referenced them in the first place.
If you call his claim loony, then you're subject to criticism if his claim turns out to be reasonable, even if, in fact, he is a loon for other reasons.
For example: Metal Brain claims Covid rates are inflated because Fauci profits from vaccines. This is something there is no evidence of. Combined with his clear bias and frequent use of disproven arguments and propagandist websites, can you see why such a claim from someone like MB would be brushed off as looney?
Note that despite our disagreements regarding Covid, I've never once referred to your arguments as "looney". You use authoritative sources for your arguments. So does Fauci, so does Hochul.
"Looney" arguments don't mean merely not liking a source; it refers to arguments that have no evidence or may even have been debunked, usually made by conspiracy theorists who believe in other such flawed arguments. These are "loons" who get dismissed.
If those same loons, by luck, happen to be right, it doesn't make their arguments any more valid, nor does it make them any less worthy of derision.
By contrast, if someone like Fauci says Covid numbers are being inflated, for obvious reasons, he is much more trustworthy than a conspiracy theorist like MB and it's not hypocritical to ignore people like MB who may accidently come to the same conclusion as Fauci or Hochul.
05 Jan 22
@vivify saidI understand and agree with most of that.
You conveniently skipped the part where I mentioned "suspect sources". That should make it clear what I'm driving at; flawed arguments from untrustworthy sources; the type of arguments people like Trump and Metal Brain would make, which is why I referenced them in the first place.
For example: Metal Brain claims Covid rates are inflated because Fauci profits from vaccines. ...[text shortened]... critical to ignore people like MB who may accidently come to the same conclusion as Fauci or Hochul.
The problem with the knee-jerk reaction to everything Metal Brain says is that, while many of his claims are wild, some of them are accurate; or at least valid. These tend to be brushed off with the same derision as the wild claims.
I try to focus on the claim, not the author. But I understand your basic point.
05 Jan 22
@sh76 saidI've acknowledged in the past that MB has had a handful of valid claims. I once told him "stop talking sensibly, you're scaring me."
The problem with the knee-jerk reaction to everything Metal Brain says is that, while many of his claims are wild, some of them are accurate; or at least valid. These tend to be brushed off with the same derision as the wild claims.
I don't dismiss MB when his arguments are based in facts and reason.
05 Jan 22
@sh76 saidAlright. I'll bite.
Move over, Dr. Fauci, we need some more room on the bus.
[quote]So were looking at a critical moment but we also want to start asking some questions. We talk about the hospitalizations.
I have always wondered. We're looking at the hospitalizations of people testing positive in hospitals. Is that person in the hospital because of COVID or did they show up there and are rou ...[text shortened]... ut of their camp and openly says things that would have gotten them banned from Twitter a month ago.
Who got banned from twitter a month ago for posting this?