Originally posted by FMFI'm sure that the environment would be better if we did away with petrol, but that isn't going to happen. Higher gas prices in Europe and the US are not helping the environment.
You don't think that the use of petrol is damaging to the environment? Seriously?
The rest of the world more than destroys what little higher gas prices are doing in the US and Europe.
Originally posted by EladarDo away with petrol? Wow. Strawman Of The Week, I reckon. Anyway. Back to our discussion: You don't want to pay something closer to the real cost of using petrol. Somebody else should pay. That's your "ideology"?
I'm sure that the environment would be better if we did away with petrol, but that isn't going to happen.
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Originally posted by FMFThe real cost is how much someone is willing to sell it for. Trying to say anything else is your agenda or ideology.
Do away with petrol? Wow. Strawman Of The Week, I reckon. Anyway. Back to our discussion: You don't want to pay something closer to the real cost of using petrol. Somebody else should pay. That's your "ideology"?
Originally posted by EladarWell it does in Europe, to a degree. And the imperfections of that 'degree' are at least in the sphere of democratic and technocratic mechanisms. It's got to be more joined-up than your as long as I don't pay approach to the consequences of your actions, surely?
Increasing the price of fuel does not pay for pollution.
Originally posted by sh76You can tax anything, then anything can be used to pump money into research and development of alternative fuels. The question is, who do you tax?
It can, if the tax revenues generated are pumped into alternative energy research and research into ways to mitigate the effects of the pollution.
Imposing higher taxes on fuel places a huge amount of the tax burden on the poor. It is very regressive.
Originally posted by EladarSo you are - for all intents and purposes - advocating fuel subsidies? Surely there are more effective ways of helping "the poor" than that? Goodness me. All those well healed and reasonably well off people benefitting from the artificially low cost too. Talk about a blunt instrument.
Imposing higher taxes on fuel places a huge amount of the tax burden on the poor.
Originally posted by EladarWell, if that is your objection you can combine a petrol tax with a highly progressive income tax. As is the case in most of western Europe.
You can tax anything, then anything can be used to pump money into research and development of alternative fuels. The question is, who do you tax?
Imposing higher taxes on fuel places a huge amount of the tax burden on the poor. It is very regressive.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraWhy have the high petrol tax at all? Why put the burden on the poor?
Well, if that is your objection you can combine a petrol tax with a highly progressive income tax. As is the case in most of western Europe.
If you want fuel efficient cars, then have government mandates. All cars of certain types must have certain minumum fuel efficiency. You don't need to force the poor out of owning cars and operating cars.
All you are doing is lowering your standard of living. I do not see why people would put up with this.
Originally posted by EladarRegressive or not, it makes sense to tax the people who consume a good to pay to offset the harm caused by said consumption.
You can tax anything, then anything can be used to pump money into research and development of alternative fuels. The question is, who do you tax?
Imposing higher taxes on fuel places a huge amount of the tax burden on the poor. It is very regressive.
Originally posted by EladarYou want the government mandating fuel efficiency?
Why have the high petrol tax at all? Why put the burden on the poor?
If you want fuel efficient cars, then have government mandates. All cars of certain types must have certain minumum fuel efficiency. You don't need to force the poor out of owning cars and operating cars.
All you are doing is lowering your standard of living. I do not see why people would put up with this.
Let the market decide. Tax the gas guzzlers to pay for solutions to the harms that they cause and let people buy whatever car they like... as long as they're willing to pay to compensate for the externalities they cause.