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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 22 Oct '09 06:19
    Ok, no sarcastic attacks on this one please, it just goes to show which people would seriously consider the proposal and not the man that you name your demands that would earn your respect for Obama...

    I'll start the examples.

    Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in line with his campaign promises, and that didn't force anyone to get insurance...

    if he actually went through an moved the far majority of troops out of Iraq... they don't have to go home, they just have to get the heck out of there as Obama promised...

    if Obama would start looking at how to unwind the stimulus including his pet environment projects...

    if he could fulfill his promise on reforming immigration laws to formalize the informal migration in a way that allows the markets for labor (supply & demand) to work with minimal government interference.

    Any others?
  2. 22 Oct '09 06:40
    Obama already got my respect a long time ago. That doesn't mean I think hes perfect.
    What is interesting is that you don't seem to believe in democracy. Surely what Obama achieves at the level you have listed should have more to do with his staff, the various senators and congress members, and the general public than Obama as an individual.
    What should get your respect is how well he manages people and assists them in making their decisions etc. The actual choices (what type of health plan etc) should not be up to him alone (and isn't).
  3. 22 Oct '09 08:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Obama already got my respect a long time ago. That doesn't mean I think hes perfect.
    What is interesting is that you don't seem to believe in democracy. Surely what Obama achieves at the level you have listed should have more to do with his staff, the various senators and congress members, and the general public than Obama as an individual.
    What should ...[text shortened]... The actual choices (what type of health plan etc) should not be up to him alone (and isn't).
    You can base your own respect on staff management skills if you so choose; you have your criteria and i have mine.
  4. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '09 08:57
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Ok, no sarcastic attacks on this one please, it just goes to show which people would seriously consider the proposal and not the man that you name your demands that would earn your respect for Obama...

    I'll start the examples.

    Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in lin ...[text shortened]... ets for labor (supply & demand) to work with minimal government interference.

    Any others?
    I seriously doubt Obama wants the like of your's respect.
  5. 22 Oct '09 09:51
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    I seriously doubt Obama wants the like of your's respect.
    I doubt he wants the respect of dropouts like you either: just their votes.
  6. 22 Oct '09 11:38
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Ok, no sarcastic attacks on this one please, it just goes to show which people would seriously consider the proposal and not the man that you name your demands that would earn your respect for Obama...

    I'll start the examples.

    Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in lin ...[text shortened]... ets for labor (supply & demand) to work with minimal government interference.

    Any others?
    why not move the troops to afghanistan? isn't that where he said they were needed, way back when?
  7. 22 Oct '09 12:00
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    why not move the troops to afghanistan? isn't that where he said they were needed, way back when?
    When he resigns,I will have a measure of respect.
  8. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '09 12:51
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    I doubt he wants the respect of dropouts like you either: just their votes.
    Who are you?
    Did you ask permission to even address me?

    Bugger off and shag your dog. Or whatever else you do when you're not beating your teenage wife, your 10 children or pissing up against your trailer.
  9. 22 Oct '09 12:57
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Ok, no sarcastic attacks on this one please, it just goes to show which people would seriously consider the proposal and not the man that you name your demands that would earn your respect for Obama...

    I'll start the examples.

    Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in lin ...[text shortened]... ets for labor (supply & demand) to work with minimal government interference.

    Any others?
    Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in line with his campaign promises, and that didn't force anyone to get insurance...

    The main thing right now is just making sure the plan doesn't add to the deficit. I would much rather see him raise taxes than just borrow additional money. Ideally, the costs should be offset by making prudent cuts to Medicare - mainly because these cuts need to be made anyway to keep Medicare from eventually swallowing the entire budget. There will probably need to be some form of means testing which will be mightily unpopular with those of means. So taking on Medicare will be a battle that will require the president and Congress's full focus.

    if he actually went through an moved the far majority of troops out of Iraq... they don't have to go home, they just have to get the heck out of there as Obama promised...

    The main thing here is that Obama has the best possible people in place to run the "operations" in Iraq and Afghanistan (I don't really think of them as wars). Whatever those people think is the best strategy is what Obama should do. He should not allow himself to be influenced by polls on this.

    if Obama would start looking at how to unwind the stimulus including his pet environment projects...

    Once the economy has been fully stimulated and the unemployment rate has dropped considerably, the topic of unwinding it should then commence. Probably won't happen in 2010 (election year). Should be a major topic for 2011 (along with those Medicare cuts).

    if he could fulfill his promise on reforming immigration laws to formalize the informal migration in a way that allows the markets for labor (supply & demand) to work with minimal government interference.

    Right now the only issue that should be on the plate is healthcare reform. Once this has been dealt with in whatever way, we can then deal with other topics. Even then, immigration reform might well be the biggest challenge that any president could have right now. Making cuts to Medicare will seem like a walk in the Rose Garden in comparison.
  10. 22 Oct '09 15:48
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Who are you?
    Did you ask permission to even address me?

    Bugger off and shag your dog. Or whatever else you do when you're not beating your teenage wife, your 10 children or pissing up against your trailer.
    You are evidently as foul-mouthed as you are foul-looking.
  11. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    22 Oct '09 16:00
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    You are evidently as foul-mouthed as you are foul-looking.
    Oh, you have no idea. But that's not him in the picture. It's his wife.
  12. 22 Oct '09 22:54
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Ok, no sarcastic attacks on this one please, it just goes to show which people would seriously consider the proposal and not the man that you name your demands that would earn your respect for Obama...

    I'll start the examples.

    Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in lin ...[text shortened]... ets for labor (supply & demand) to work with minimal government interference.

    Any others?
    Just an FYI the process for troop withdraw already started months ago.
  13. 23 Oct '09 03:26
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    When he resigns,I will have a measure of respect.
    What a dumb remark. You can't be seriious. Don't you realize what harm that would do for this country. Or don't you care as long as it satisfies your ego?
  14. 23 Oct '09 05:31
    Originally posted by badmoon
    What a dumb remark. You can't be seriious. Don't you realize what harm that would do for this country. Or don't you care as long as it satisfies your ego?
    What harm would it cost ? Biden become President?
  15. 05 Nov '09 08:10
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    [b]Obama could earn my respect if he actually had a paid-for health care plan that didn't raise indirect taxes at least in line with his campaign promises, and that didn't force anyone to get insurance...

    The main thing right now is just making sure the plan doesn't add to the deficit. I would much rather see him raise taxes than just borrow additi ...[text shortened]... ht now. Making cuts to Medicare will seem like a walk in the Rose Garden in comparison.[/b]
    We agree on the issue of not raising the deficit and the importance of finding good military strategies in Iraq&Afghanistan, but I also value his keeping a promise to take troops out of Iraq. As zeeblebot (I think it was) mentioned also, perhaps moving troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, as the generals say they need more Afghanistan troops.

    I think unwinding stimulus can be helpful for sustainable medium-to-long-term growth and therefore to reducing unemployment in a sustainable long-term way that doesn't inhibit growth the way that debt did in Argentina or Japan. Why boost 2009 and 2010 at the cost of 2011-15 prospects (and maybe longer given debt/interest/other compounding factors)... Certainly some of the environment projects are not that big a priority for most people right now. How about focusing on the economy?

    As for no immigration yet, I don't know why he promised immigration reform in his first year and THEN backed down and pushed it to an election year. Tell me another one...