This quote, however, is where I find myself agreeing with you, currently. I see the gay marriage movement as the central means by which the gay community expresses its frustration with a society that often treats it without dignity or respect. I'm not sure I fully embrace the means of the movement, but I certainly do embrace the end. And when it comes d ...[text shortened]... at no other means would achieve the gay community's end, then I'll support the means, anyway.[/b]
Looking at homosexuality in its historical context, what concerns me are civilizations like Greece which embraced the practic. This tells me that the civilization by in large not only approved of the practice, in fact, it was slmost expected. Although I view some to be naturally predispositioned to be gay, clearly the large numbers of gays in ancient Greece was a departure from the norm which was enhanced by the societal embrace of the practice. So if I'm right in that homosexuality is less than optimal or even a defect sexually speaking, then what will the reprocussions be as a society when it is embraced as "normal"?
One thing about the left is that they are all into societal engineering and tinkering so get your petri dishes out everyone and see what grows!! Hopefully it is not some nasty organism that can harm society at large.
Originally posted by PsychoPawn [You haven't hit the nail on the head at all. The government allowing same sex marriage has nothing to do with endorsing sex - it has to do with putting gay relationships on an equal legal status. What happens in gay people's bedroom is already legal.
Translated: gays want the same government perks that straight people have for getting marriage. It seems everyone wants a peice of the tax payer pie.
Originally posted by whodey Translated: gays want the same government perks that straight people have for getting marriage. It seems everyone wants a peice of the tax payer pie.
Well, sure. Why not?
As far as I am concerned you either have to give the perks to gay and straight relationships or give them to neither.
These perks are more than just financial. They include simple things like hospital visitation and others. Do you think gay people shouldn't have those perks?
If the government got out of marriage doesn't that mean that gay marriage is legal?
Originally posted by PsychoPawn Well, sure. Why not?
As far as I am concerned you either have to give the perks to gay and straight relationships or give them to neither.
These perks are more than just financial. They include simple things like hospital visitation and others. Do you think gay people shouldn't have those perks?
If the government got out of marriage doesn't that mean that gay marriage is legal?
Now it's time for a reality check.
Those in government have no interest in "equality". If they did, they would also give such rights to polygamists or even singles. The bottom line is that the gay lobby payed the poltical price for their representatives to give them a peice of the pie. Simply put, it's the best governemnt money can buy.
Originally posted by whodey Now it's time for a reality check.
Those in government have no interest in "equality". If they did, they would also give such rights to polygamists or even singles. The bottom line is that the gay lobby payed the poltical price for their representatives to give them a peice of the pie. Simply put, it's the best governemnt money can buy.
With singles, they already do get some benefits of marriage - it's called common law marriages.
Can you answer the questions I have asked you?
If government is out of marriage then doesn't that mean that gay marriage would be legal? If so, do you think it should be?
Originally posted by whodey Looking at homosexuality in its historical context, what concerns me are civilizations like Greece which embraced the practic. This tells me that the civilization by in large not only approved of the practice, in fact, it was slmost expected. Although I view some to be naturally predispositioned to be gay, clearly the large numbers of gays in ancient Greece ...[text shortened]... nd see what grows!! Hopefully it is not some nasty organism that can harm society at large.
The repercussions will be that we move closer to a society where someone's private choices remain private and not a matter of public policy.
Ancient Greece was at the top of the world if you remember correctly, and they developed mathematical thinking, philosophy, and influenced western culture in all sorts of positive ways forever. I don't think they had any more gays in Greece than any other society. They just weren't as closeted, in the upper classes anyway. Alexander the Great was gay. Maybe you're concerned that we will become more imperial?
Originally posted by whodey Now it's time for a reality check.
Those in government have no interest in "equality". If they did, they would also give such rights to polygamists or even singles. The bottom line is that the gay lobby payed the poltical price for their representatives to give them a peice of the pie. Simply put, it's the best governemnt money can buy.
Well, they have a policy of wanting to promote life partnerships, which might actually take pressure off of public resources if people are taking care of each other for the most part.
I have no problem with decriminalizing polygamy. But do polygamous relationships further the policies supported by two person marriage? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe.
Originally posted by Kunsoo Ancient Greece was at the top of the world if you remember correctly, and they developed mathematical thinking, philosophy, and influenced western culture in all sorts of positive ways forever. I don't think they had any more gays in Greece than any other society. They just weren't as closeted, in the upper classes anyway. Alexander the Great was gay. Maybe you're concerned that we will become more imperial?[/b]
Ancient Greece also became arrogant and thought that their brand of "democracy" should be forcably exported to the rest of the world, beginning with Sparta. The reuslt? The result was a long hard war with Sparta that led them to abject ruin economically, from which they never recovered. Sound familiar?
They also depended a great deal on slave labor so they could sit around all day and speculate about philosophy and have gay sex. Yea, they were a great bunch of chaps.
Out of the whole lot of them I favor Socrates who said that if there be but one man born into the world with no guile, he would be murdered in a world filled with guile, or something to that effect. Of course, then they murdered him.
Originally posted by whodey Ancient Greece also became arrogant and thought that their brand of "democracy" should be forcably exported to the rest of the world, beginning with Sparta. The reuslt? The result was a long hard war with Sparta that led them to abject ruin economically, from which they never recovered. Sound familiar?
They also depended a great deal on slave labor so t ...[text shortened]... in a world filled with guile, or something to that effect. Of course, then they murdered him.
Yes, they never recovered... except for the 1200 years or so when the Roman Empire was seated at Constantinople/Byzantium and it was one of the most powerful empires in the world during most of that time?
Originally posted by whodey My only chance for polygamy to be legalized is to have the gay lobbiests champion the cause. No doubt, they would ONLY legalize gay polygamy. 😛
So what is it you're afraid of if gay marriage gets legalized? What terrible things have happened in the countries and US states where it has been legalized?
Originally posted by whodey Ancient Greece also became arrogant and thought that their brand of "democracy" should be forcably exported to the rest of the world, beginning with Sparta. The reuslt? The result was a long hard war with Sparta that led them to abject ruin economically, from which they never recovered. Sound familiar?
They also depended a great deal on slave labor so t ...[text shortened]... in a world filled with guile, or something to that effect. Of course, then they murdered him.
So I was right! Allowing gay sex made Greece more imperial! Who knew?
Obama makes history
11 May '12 11:436 edits
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