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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 20 Sep '09 22:55
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

    Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.
  2. 21 Sep '09 00:33
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

    Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.
    Not true, our only hope is if Big Brother comes to the rescue and takes everything over. He and he alone holds our salvation in his grasp!!!
  3. 21 Sep '09 00:43
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

    Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.
    I am thinking that it might be possible that the picture of the Obama care is so bleak that we will be grateful slaves that it will boil down to nothing more than a federal mandate for healthcare insurance and nothing more. Could it be that it is 99 percent smoke and mirrors and the 1 percent left is what they really wanted in the first place which is mandatory insurance? Full control? Either way Obama is not tackling the real problems of our healthcare system. How do we make real healthcare reform an issue in coming elections without control of the media?
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Sep '09 03:59
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.
    Private sector health service providers all across Europe are doing good business.
  5. 21 Sep '09 04:02
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

    Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.
    So if you can't afford adequate health care you should die?
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Sep '09 04:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zort Boy
    So if you can't afford adequate health care you should die?
    The OP stumbles and falls before it even reaches its first full stop. There seems to be some failure to understand what "American Dreams [sic]" means plus a failure to understand what "the European model [sic]" is.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Sep '09 04:24
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.
    The guy who coined the phrase "the American dream" said: "It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position.”

    He also said: “The American Dream, that has lured tens of millions of all nations to our shores in the past century has not been a dream of material plenty, though that has doubtlessly counted heavily. It has been a dream of being able to grow to fullest development as a man and woman, unhampered by the barriers which had slowly been erected in the older civilizations, unrepressed by social orders which had developed for the benefit of classes rather than for the simple human being of any and every class."

    The keys to escaping poverty are education and health. The key to the 'level playing field (of opportunity)' envisaged by the guy who coined the phrase "the American Dream" is adequate education provision and health provision. The private sector is unable to implement adequate education provision and health provision for those trapped in poverty. Economic mobility for the poorest in the USA is in decline and has been for about thirty years.

    Clearly, for society to set up and run for itself, health and education services available to all, but especially the poor, is not only compatible with "the American Dream", but - in fact - absolutely essential if the "American Dream" is to have any substance or relevance - or actuality - in the 21stC.

    The U.S. should create its own system, obviously, but should look to the rest of the developed world, including what you incorrectly refer to as "the European model" (note: there is no such thing; models, I think you meant), to learn from those countries' varied experiences and seek out examples of good practice and successful policies.
  8. 21 Sep '09 04:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    The OP stumbles and falls before it even reaches its first full stop. There seems to be some failure to understand what "American Dreams [sic]" means plus a failure to understand what "the European model [sic]" is.
    What about the Australian model? If you can't afford private insurance the medicare system caters for you as a public patient. You may have to go on a waiting list and that list may be long but you will get treatment.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Sep '09 04:58
    Originally posted by Zort Boy
    What about the Australian model? If you can't afford private insurance the medicare system caters for you as a public patient. You may have to go on a waiting list and that list may be long but you will get treatment.
    Indeed. I don't see how this clashes with the Australian concept of "Fair Go", which is simply another version of "the American Dream".
  10. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    21 Sep '09 05:30
    Originally posted by FMF
    Private sector health service providers all across Europe are doing good business.
    I don't think you belong in this thread. Accurate information in American political debates is forbidden.
  11. 21 Sep '09 06:29
    So, why don't I hear anyone in favour of abolishing the current socialized single-payer model to construct major infrastructure projects?
  12. 21 Sep '09 07:52
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

    Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.
    Except... that's not the bill nor has Obama ever suggested universal healthcare.
  13. 21 Sep '09 10:34
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Except... that's not the bill nor has Obama ever suggested universal healthcare.
    Thats right, in fact, he will kick out illegal immagrents out of the hospitals that want to be treated.

    I'm trying to tell them man!!
  14. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    21 Sep '09 11:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.
    So the taxpayer, the ordinary American, who has just dug deep into theirs and their children's pockets to finance this bailout, should allow the now healthy companies to be sold off. And the smart money set are laughing all the way to the bank as risk is socialized and wealth (real wealth) is guaranteed by an ignorant mindset that would die to defend the right's of the wealthy at their own expense. Bring back the roving chain, all is forgiven. (Rove 'n Cheney) You certainly can fool most people most of the time, especially if they are gun loving, independent minded anachronism's still fearful of a socialised society to the extent that they would rather defend the wealthy than look after themselves because in dying on their feet and sticking it to European Statism, at least they were free men. Sheez does anyone recognise an end game squeeze play or what, or is the world really populated by idiots!
  15. 21 Sep '09 13:21
    Frankly I don't see where the health insurance companies add much value to our society and I don't see why so many feel that they have a God given right to exist.