Originally posted by FMFwell drat!
No. You did yourself in with your 3rd post on this thread. It hangs there in the air like a Stilton trouser burp. Not like me to kick a man when he's down.
what the heck is a stilton trouser burp... a big greasy fart?
When did you stop kicking a man when he was down,, turning over a new leaf?
But what i said in post three is true..... These guys with the funny accents, are more redneck than me. maybe they watched old Rifleman shows back home?
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Originally posted by Hugh GlassYou know what it takes to be a redneck. You've mastered it.
well drat!
what the heck is a stilton trouser burp... a big greasy fart?
When did you stop kicking a man when he was down,, turning over a new leaf?
But what i said in post three is true..... These guys with the funny accents, are more redneck than me. maybe they watched old Rifleman shows back home?
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Originally posted by whodeyBest analogy: a conservative is a guy who shares a ride to work with you and every chance he gets pours sugar into the gas tank and punctures the tires, and when it is his turn to drive he plunges the car into the nearest ditch then gets out, observes his handiwork, and says he thought you should be walking anyway. He does all this just because he doesn't want to pay his part for the gas.
Isn't it obvious? I mean, if you are a conservative or are sympathetic to conservativism you are either stupid, greedy, or crazy.
I recently saw a tag cloud constructed from 2 groups of answers to the health insurance question. The largest words in the pro-reform cloud were "People" and "Need." In the anti-reform cloud the largest words were "Government" and "Cost." It IS obvious who believes we live in a Republic where all citizens depend on each other and who would prefer to live in a cave to avoid sharing with others. Personally I think it is brain-function and nothing I say will change the mind of someone who has no compassion. They have no compassion because they are physically unable to feel that emotion. I suspect that there are evolutionary reasons for that kind of human to develop (who would you rather have by your side in a knife-fight?) but the sad thing is much of the social history of the species is a record of trying to create a livable society without those kinds of people. We're stuck with them (and the truth is we're all somewhere on the continuum) but it so frustrating to know the big rock is coming but we can't prepare because some people would rather die (and have their offspring die) than cooperate. The quality of mercy is not strained indeed.
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Originally posted by TerrierJackNot totally true. I have compassion, especially for those who will be paying for this huge expense coming our way.....
Best analogy: a conservative is a guy who shares a ride to work with you and every chance he gets pours sugar into the gas tank and punctures the tires, and when it is his turn to drive he plunges the car into the nearest ditch then gets out, observes his handiwork, and says he thought you should be walking anyway. He does all this just because he doesn' ve their offspring die) than cooperate. The quality of mercy is not strained indeed.
People who are deemed below the poverty level will get federal help to pay for insurance.... isn't that the same as saying we'll tax the rich for the poor?
when do we reach a point, when there are no rich?
Their way of explaining the way of paying for it, is by streamlining the current system, so it works better...is that a plausible explaination,,, when has the government stream lined something,, oh wait, when they vote for their own pay raise?
Look at the back log numbers for people applying for S.S. disability benefits,,, lets start this stream line there, and see how it works?
Originally posted by TerrierJackSo do you give to people in need or do you expect government to do it?
Best analogy: a conservative is a guy who shares a ride to work with you and every chance he gets pours sugar into the gas tank and punctures the tires, and when it is his turn to drive he plunges the car into the nearest ditch then gets out, observes his handiwork, and says he thought you should be walking anyway. He does all this just because he doesn' ...[text shortened]... ve their offspring die) than cooperate. The quality of mercy is not strained indeed.
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Originally posted by Hugh GlassYou're doing a great job of proving my point. Thanks.
Not totally true. I have compassion, especially for those who will be paying for this huge expense coming our way.....
People who are deemed below the poverty level will get federal help to pay for insurance.... isn't that the same as saying we'll tax the rich for the poor?
when do we reach a point, when there are no rich?
Their way of explaining the w ...[text shortened]... lying for S.S. disability benefits,,, lets start this stream line there, and see how it works?
We have to go work. We already collect to pay for the ride. You feel sorry for the people paying for the ride because some need help to afford it. Adam Smith said the rich should pay more because they receive more (for one thing they get the cooperation of the lower and middle classes in maintaining their wealth.) The only way the rich will disappear is if we impoverish the majority of the people so they have no expectation that their real needs will be met (I'm talking 'needs' not desires.) At that point they will cease to cooperate and will we no longer have a Republic. You are absolutely correct that government is not as efficient as it could be - shouldn't those who can afford it be taxed more so that we can create a more efficient system? I have been inside private insurance companies, and banks, and countless other enterprises - none of them are particularly efficient - that is a myth. Once a business becomes so large that it is no longer in the direct control of one or a few individuals then the inefficiencies start piling up like leaves in a clogged drain. That is true of government also. In my experience it takes money to unclog that drain and for over 30 years conservatives have been so unwilling to pay taxes that they have let the systems our parent entrusted to us rot. Roads and bridges are collapsing. Costs are spiraling out of control everywhere because anyone with half a brain will tell you that nothing increases costs faster than neglect. We were in massive debt after the Revolutionary War and after WWII but we increased taxes, built infrastructure, and serviced needs and paid off every nickel. You can't make a pie bigger by leaving out ingredients. When do we reach a point when there is nothing left for most of us to work for?
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Originally posted by whodeyYes, I give. I don't discount charity. But charity won't stop a bridge from collapsing. It won't build a bomber. It won't replace Social Security. In the depression (including the one we're in) charities can't keep up because they don't have the level of organization necessary to meet all the expanding needs. I'm sure you've seen administrators interviewed on your local news talking about how the people coming for assistance are the ones who used to give.
So do you give to people in need or do you expect government to do it?
Originally posted by TerrierJackSo you give to charities? Good. But do you put a second mortgage on your house and max out your credit, say a few hundred thousand dollars or perhaps half a million, and give it to charity?
Yes, I give. I don't discount charity. But charity won't stop a bridge from collapsing. It won't build a bomber. It won't replace Social Security. In the depression (including the one we're in) charities can't keep up because they don't have the level of organization necessary to meet all the expanding needs. I'm sure you've seen administrators interview ...[text shortened]... news talking about how the people coming for assistance are the ones who used to give.
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No - I don't do that to make war on the people across town either. But I also don't have the capacity to gather revenue or the responsibility to ensure that it is well spent that a government does. It is a really poor argument to compare personal finances with the government (or a large business [bought an airliner recently?].) You cannot reduce the complexity of a national government (or a multinational corporation) to your wage-slave job and living expenses. Do you mind that your city is providing health insurance to your local fire department or do you have really big hose? When you run a big enterprise you need capital (sometimes more than you have readily available.) You can get it and use it or you can go bankrupt not being able to respond to a challenge. If the government goes bankrupt it is likely that someone slits your throat. I'd prefer that that not happen.
As I said, you have no compassion, so you can't put yourself in someone's place. Apparently you can't even imagine the responsibilities of government.