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  1. 04 Feb '14 19:03
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/4/cbo-obamacare-push-2m-workers-out-labor-market/

    Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.


    Are we to believe the CBO?
  2. 04 Feb '14 19:53
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/4/cbo-obamacare-push-2m-workers-out-labor-market/

    [b]Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.


    Are we to believe the CBO?[/b]
    We only believe the CBO when it casts the ACA in a favorable light, otherwise it is Tea Party propaganda.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    04 Feb '14 20:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/4/cbo-obamacare-push-2m-workers-out-labor-market/

    [b]Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.


    Are we to believe the CBO?[/b]
    Sure, just don't ever believe a Washington Times headline.

    “CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 to 2 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, almost entirely because workers will choose to supply less labor — given the new taxes and other incentives they will face and the financial benefits some will receive,” CBO analysts wrote in their new economic outlook.


    More free time that workers will choose to have! Sweet!

    Plus a decrease in worker supply while demand for workers remains constant should increase salaries for the rest of us (supply and demand ya know).

    The ACA just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?
  4. 04 Feb '14 21:08
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Sure, just don't ever believe a Washington Times headline.

    “CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 to 2 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, almost entirely because [b]workers will choose to supply less labor
    — given the new taxes and other incentives they will face and th ...[text shortened]... y and demand ya know).

    The ACA just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?[/b]
    Good policy does not make people want to stop working. Good policy rewards work and encourages people to continue to work. Punishing people for making money leads to a work force that has given up on the American dream.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    04 Feb '14 21:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Good policy does not make people want to stop working. Good policy rewards work and encourages people to continue to work. Punishing people for making money leads to a work force that has given up on the American dream.


    Giving people the opportunity to work less if they don't want to without being penalized by being left helpless if they get sick is a fine policy. If they choose to make less money, what's your complaint?

    Are you also in favor of abolishing Social Security and Medicare? After all, if old people couldn't have any money or health insurance they'd be "encouraged" to continue to work.
  6. 05 Feb '14 01:35
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Good policy does not make people want to stop working. Good policy rewards work and encourages people to continue to work. Punishing people for making money leads to a work force that has given up on the American dream.
    Good policy allows people, as much as possible, to do what makes them happy.
    So that we can all enjoy or one breif existance as much as possible.

    Introducing conscription and slave labour would remove unemployment completely.
    But it would be terrible policy because it would make a great number of people
    very unhappy.

    Unhealthy people are generally unhappy.

    In as much as The Afordable Care Act helps people get healthcare they couldn't
    before it is a good thing.


    There are many faults with the ACA... Almost all of them are because it doesn't go
    nearly far enough. And that's almost entirely the republicans fault.
  7. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    05 Feb '14 01:42
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Are we to believe the CBO?
    Definitely not when it claims that repealing the ACA would add to the federal deficit.
  8. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    05 Feb '14 01:51 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/4/cbo-obamacare-push-2m-workers-out-labor-market/

    [b]Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.


    Are we to believe the CBO?[/b]
    ...and how many American jobs will our beloved Fortune 500 exported to China and India in the same time period??? (Oops...I forgot, we're not supposed to talk about that, Shhhhh! )
  9. 05 Feb '14 01:57
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/4/cbo-obamacare-push-2m-workers-out-labor-market/

    [b]Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.


    Are we to believe the CBO?[/b]
    This is what they want.

    The more people that are poor, the more dependent they become on the federal government and the less educated they become.

    How else are Progressives to maintain power?
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '14 02:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    This is what they want.

    The more people that are poor, the more dependent they become on the federal government and the less educated they become.

    How else are Progressives to maintain power?
    Mitt Romney tried that stupid argument; how'd it work for him?

    We're all "dependent" on having good health and the ACA gives millions of working people (who right wingers like yourself don't seem to care whether they live or die) a better chance of receiving care that would result in good health.

    Of course, Progressives have always pushed for workers to receive higher salaries and benefits and have supported educational opportunities for those with lower incomes while your ideological brethren have bitterly fought every measure to achieve either. So your phony all of a sudden concern for the well-being of blue collar workers is unconvincing in the extreme.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '14 02:17
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Definitely not when it claims that repealing the ACA would add to the federal deficit.
    I don't think the CBO report makes any such claim.
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '14 02:35 / 1 edit
    Of course, the easiest way to eliminate any such economic disincentive would be to adopt a single payer "Medicare for all" system. Then workers would have no reason to reduce their hours to receive higher, nonexistent subsidies.
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '14 03:04
    A reasonable argument is that the law increases economic mobility and might spur innovative entrepreneurship:

    "One of the strong points of the Affordable Care Act is that you don't have to keep working someplace just to get your health insurance," Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA), a leading author of Obamacare, told TPM on Tuesday. "I absolutely believe that what we're seeing here with the Affordable Care Act is that people now can become entrepreneurs, they can start their own businesses, they can do different things and they aren't tied to some place just because of health insurance."

    Harkin's colleagues agreed.

    "I think you're going to see enormous innovation in this economy because people can now leave their employer knowing that they're going to have health care when they take an idea and turn it into a start-up business," Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) told TPM."There's enormous economic freedom that comes from the health care bill."

    Unlike in other developed countries, about half of all Americans get their health insurance from their employer, in part because individual market is expensive, often ineffective and provides little health security. As a result, many people have been stuck with their employer because they can't find health care elsewhere. Obamacare aims to fix that by providing subsidies and imposing rules on insurers that make it easier for consumers to buy coverage on the individual market.

    "We have a CBO report that, rightfully, says that people shouldn't have job lock. We live in a country where people should be free agents -- where people can do what they want," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) told reporters. "This Republican talk about losing millions of jobs simply isn't true. [Obamacare] allows people to get out of the job they're locked into because they have health care from their job. Now there [are more options] for health care."

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/democrats-obamacare-job-reductions-good-thing
  14. 05 Feb '14 04:11
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Mitt Romney tried that stupid argument; how'd it work for him?

    We're all "dependent" on having good health and the ACA gives millions of working people (who right wingers like yourself don't seem to care whether they live or die) a better chance of receiving care that would result in good health.

    Of course, Progressives hav ...[text shortened]... ll of a sudden concern for the well-being of blue collar workers is unconvincing in the extreme.
    Progressives have overseen the demise of the middle class and the increasing gulf between the rich and poor.

    In the interim, they distance themselves from it by blaming conservatives even though conservatives have not been in power.
  15. 05 Feb '14 06:44
    Originally posted by Eladar

    Are we to believe the CBO?
    It is possible that people will work fewer hours if they don't absolutely have to work more. I don't really see how that is a bad thing, though.

    The CBO's claims that higher benefits lead to lower employment, however, are poorly founded empirically. There are plenty of places with vastly more generous benefits, where the long-term unemployed have standards of living the working poor in the US can only dream of, yet many of those places employ a larger percentage of the workforce than the US does.