1. Joined
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    05 Feb '14 20:21
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    From, of all people, Paul Ryan regarding your type of argument:

    "There's been an undertone of disrespect in this hearing as I sat through it about people who just don't want to go to work," Ryan said. "So I appreciate your being very clear that this isn't about 2 million jobs. This is about average people having an opportunity to reduce th ...[text shortened]... on their own family."

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/cbo-obamacare-jobs-tim-ryan <----- Derp
    Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) said that you dolt.
  2. Joined
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    05 Feb '14 20:26
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    How is working freeloading again?
    cutting hours you would otherwise work so others for the sole reason that others pay for your benefits is freeloading.
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    05 Feb '14 20:28
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) said that you dolt.
    The facts never matter to no1. As long as he can insult someone, he's happy.
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    05 Feb '14 20:39
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    "Simple" you sure are.

    A lower tax on dividends discourages work. IF government policy makes someone make a rational economic decision to forego some work in order for an insurance company to receive more money (that's who get the subsidy), they are "freeloaders". IF government policy encourages someone to work less and rely on dividend i ...[text shortened]... essential contribution to commerce"!

    Hold your breath until you true blue, QQ.
    Although you believe otherwise dividends are taxed twice. First as company income, second as the owners of the company receive their money. But that's not the issue here. Regular income and dividend income are different and are justifiably treated differently. But that's not the issue here.

    The issue is that it is whether it is bad policy to force people to forego working opportunities so they can get governmental subsidies. I believe that it is and that those who contribute to subsidy programs should resent those who adversely effect their economic situation so others can supplement their income.
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    05 Feb '14 21:10
    Originally posted by quackquack
    cutting hours you would otherwise work so others for the sole reason that others pay for your benefits is freeloading.
    I have a full-time job. Am I a "freeloader" because I'm not also working a second job in the weekends?
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    05 Feb '14 21:50
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I have a full-time job. Am I a "freeloader" because I'm not also working a second job in the weekends?
    No, I think the distinction is you did not actively cut your hours and then apply for benefits that others pay for that you otherwise would not have qualified for.
  7. Joined
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    06 Feb '14 01:43
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    To you, "progressive" is just some kind of "bad" word to label virtually anybody that in your historically ignorant mind somehow contributed to policies you don't like.

    To me, "progressive" has a fairly specific meaning having to do with the pro-labor policies and anti-monopoly stances of various groups around the late 19th Century and earli ...[text shortened]... on't have the slightest clue what you are talking about and are happy in your extreme ignorance.
    Being progressive to me is simply being a collectivist, whether this means forming large corporations and centralizing business or doing the same in politics by centralizing power to the Executive that we have seen over the years.

    And people like you supported the ACA which gave corporate America the right to set our tax rates. In the end, it became nothing but the largest tax increase on the middle class in US history.

    Sickening.

    Keep blaming the Tea Party but they have only been around a few years. You can say they are the root of all evil in the world but in the end they have no real power as seen in Congress as they cave repeatedly by increasing the debt ceiling.
  8. Standard memberno1marauder
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    06 Feb '14 01:53
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) said that you dolt.
    The article was confusing but you are correct for a rare moment though your childish insults are as usual, unnecessary.

    My apologies.
  9. Standard memberno1marauder
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    06 Feb '14 01:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    Being progressive to me is simply being a collectivist, whether this means forming large corporations and centralizing business or doing the same in politics by centralizing power to the Executive that we have seen over the years.

    And people like you supported the ACA which gave corporate America the right to set our tax rates. In the end, it became nothi ...[text shortened]... y have no real power as seen in Congress as they cave repeatedly by increasing the debt ceiling.
    So you think you can make up your own definitions that make no historical or logical sense. Andrew Carnegie and John Rockefeller were "progressives" according to that ridiculous definition.

    What taxes on the middle class were raised by the ACA? You were asked this before and couldn't name one. I know it's a right wing talking point and propaganda claim, but try thinking for yourself.

    According to the CBO report that you and Eladar liked in the opening posts, there will be 25 million less uninsured people in the US because of the ACA. That is apparently "nothing" to you but it's probably "something" to them.
  10. Standard memberno1marauder
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    06 Feb '14 02:05
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Although you believe otherwise dividends are taxed twice. First as company income, second as the owners of the company receive their money. But that's not the issue here. Regular income and dividend income are different and are justifiably treated differently. But that's not the issue here.

    The issue is that it is whether it is bad policy to force ...[text shortened]... esent those who adversely effect their economic situation so others can supplement their income.
    I've heard that ridiculous argument for years. A corporation is a separate and distinct legal entity from its shareholders. That's the whole point of incorporation. The "double taxation" claim is bogus.

    Income is income and in a logical system would be taxed the same. It isn't because it favors the rich to not do so. As a sycophant for the rich, you have no problem with this policy that discourages work because it favors the wealthy. But you "resent" average working Americans for making economically rational decisions. That's typical of your class warfare ideas.

    And perhaps your reading skills are poor, but most Americans don't contribute anything to the subsidy programs as I've already explained. Please re-read my posts regarding the funding of the ACA and address the point raised.
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    06 Feb '14 02:073 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So you think you can make up your own definitions that make no historical or logical sense. Andrew Carnegie and John Rockefeller were "progressives" according to that ridiculous definition.

    What taxes on the middle class were raised by the ACA? You were asked this before and couldn't name one. I know it's a right wing talking point ...[text shortened]... S because of the ACA. That is apparently "nothing" to you but it's probably "something" to them.
    Look in any history book and you will see that the last hundred years is called the era of the progressive movement. Meanwhile, Progressives like yourself are distancing yourself as far away from the powers that be and have been as humanly possible.

    Then again, I can't say I blame you.

    As for health care premiums, mine have gone up as have everyone elses that I've talked to. Has yours dropped?

    I personally will oppose any federal solution to health care. The issue should belong to the states. You can't expect to impose your will on conservative states and not also expect them to blindly follow along. You prove your position by demonstration. Let states find their own solutions and then adopt ones that work.
  12. Standard memberno1marauder
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    06 Feb '14 02:50
    Originally posted by whodey
    Look in any history book and you will see that the last hundred years is called the era of the progressive movement. Meanwhile, Progressives like yourself are distancing yourself as far away from the powers that be and have been as humanly possible.

    Then again, I can't say I blame you.

    As for health care premiums, mine have gone up as have everyone els ...[text shortened]... r position by demonstration. Let states find their own solutions and then adopt ones that work.
    Yes look in a history book I'm sure you'll find Andrew Carnegie, John Rockefeller and Ronald Reagan described as "progressives".🙄

    Health care premiums had been increasing at more than 2 1/2 times the rate of inflation for about 15 years prior to the passage of the ACA. They have slowed considerably since. By your "logic", this is a tax decrease, not a tax increase (though really it isn't either but we're playing WhodeySpeak).

    The problem was left to the States. The "solution" was to have 50 million uninsured and premiums and costs skyrocketing. This was economically damaging to the People of the entire nation. A national solution was required and one was implemented (not the best one, but one our elected representatives chose). Your usual "turn the clock back" proposal is insufficient and would just put us back in the same mess as before.
  13. Standard memberno1marauder
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    06 Feb '14 03:00
    I continue to try to puzzle out how anyone could claim that it was "progressive" policies that caused the economic morass which the nation got itself into over the thirty years prior to the financial meltdown of 2008. The policies adopted consisted of huge tax cuts which disproportionately benefited the wealthy, massive deregulation (including that of the financial sector), the adoption of "free trade" and free international capital flows which enriched the plutocrats but caused the US manufacturing base to almost disappear, the erosion of the real value of the minimum wage and pretty much every other damned thing that the wealthy wanted. Many of these policies directly overturned Progressive laws enacted under FDR or even before.

    Progressive policies? Where? When?
  14. Joined
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    06 Feb '14 03:33
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I continue to try to puzzle out how anyone could claim that it was "progressive" policies that caused the economic morass which the nation got itself into over the thirty years prior to the financial meltdown of 2008. The policies adopted consisted of huge tax cuts which disproportionately benefited the wealthy, massive deregulation (including that of th ...[text shortened]... ressive laws enacted under FDR or even before.

    Progressive policies? Where? When?
    Progressive hide behind such legislation as Civil Rights, but then oversee the demise of the middle class. Then they implement their own policies while pointing their bony fingers at those who are not and have not been in power as being the reason for the demise.

    I could really care less about the term "progressive". It only boils down to collectivism and the myriad of names behind which they hide. In the end, the uber rich wish to govern our lives whether it be through corporate control or the government, each being one in the same.
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    06 Feb '14 06:36
    Originally posted by quackquack
    No, I think the distinction is you did not actively cut your hours and then apply for benefits that others pay for that you otherwise would not have qualified for.
    But I do both. If I would work in the weekends, I would certainly pay more taxes.
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