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  1. 20 Oct '09 12:07
    http://www.france24.com/en/20091017-abortions-spain-portests-demonstration-legislation-liberalisation-madrid

    It appears that last saturday Spainards took to the streets denouncing legislation introduced to allow youg girls 16 years old and up to have abortions without their parents approval even though a little over half the population disagrees with it. In fact, since the socialist Zapatero had seized power in 2004, he has shoved a great many left winged reforms down the throats of the populice.

    Does anyone see any correlation to this and what is going on in the states? Is the world in a socialist/left winged take over?
  2. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    20 Oct '09 12:10 / 1 edit
    No, no parallelisms.

    Unfortunately, the U.S. does not and will never look like Europe under social-democratic rule.

    First, U.S. people should learn the real meaning of 'socialism'.

    It is comedic how easily and freely the word is used over there, more with
    a shock/propagandistic twist rather that with a real understanding.
  3. 20 Oct '09 12:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.france24.com/en/20091017-abortions-spain-portests-demonstration-legislation-liberalisation-madrid

    It appears that last saturday Spainards took to the streets denouncing legislation introduced to allow youg girls 16 years old and up to have abortions without their parents approval even though a little over half the population disagrees with it. ...[text shortened]... to this and what is going on in the states? Is the world in a socialist/left winged take over?
    First you must define which definition of Socialism you're speaking about. Do you mean the actual definition or the GOP (call anything you don't like) Socialism?
  4. 20 Oct '09 12:20
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    First you must define which definition of Socialism you're speaking about. Do you mean the actual definition or the GOP (call anything you don't like) Socialism?
    I am simply describing the move towards socialism. One has to start down the path to get to ones destination. You can't just wave a magic wand to get there.
  5. 20 Oct '09 12:21
    Originally posted by Seitse
    No, no parallelisms.

    Unfortunately, the U.S. does not and will never look like Europe under social-democratic rule.

    First, U.S. people should learn the real meaning of 'socialism'.

    It is comedic how easily and freely the word is used over there, more with
    a shock/propagandistic twist rather that with a real understanding.
    What I am describing is the governmnet usurping the popular opinion on such issues. It reminds me of health care reform in this country with a little over half opposing it. Mark my words, it will get passed regardless of the popular opinion.
  6. 20 Oct '09 12:22
    Originally posted by Seitse
    No, no parallelisms.

    Unfortunately, the U.S. does not and will never look like Europe under social-democratic rule.

    First, U.S. people should learn the real meaning of 'socialism'.

    It is comedic how easily and freely the word is used over there, more with
    a shock/propagandistic twist rather that with a real understanding.
    Unfortunately most Americans lack even a fundamental understanding of how our own government works, much less how various forms of governance is defined. Tha's why it's so easy for politiians and pundits to wrecklessly throw around buzz words like "Socialism" and make them sound scarey.

    Unfortunately we're moving backwards instead of forward. In 1961 Ronald Reagon warned that Medicare was going "make us Socialist" and do all these scarey things that never happened. Through the 80's wild Communism accusations were flung all over the place. It seems the right is going back to its roots in this regard.
  7. 20 Oct '09 12:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I am simply describing the move towards socialism. One has to start down the path to get to ones destination. You can't just wave a magic wand to get there.
    Ok, so let me get this straight. You actually think we're "on a path" to where there will be no private enterprises and the government will completely own the means of production and distribution of goods?

    Really?
  8. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    20 Oct '09 12:25
    Originally posted by whodey
    the governmnet usurping the popular opinion
    Uhm, I wonder if governments of ideologies other than "socialism" have ever attempted such thing...
  9. 20 Oct '09 12:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.france24.com/en/20091017-abortions-spain-portests-demonstration-legislation-liberalisation-madrid

    It appears that last saturday Spainards took to the streets denouncing legislation introduced to allow youg girls 16 years old and up to have abortions without their parents approval even though a little over half the population disagrees with it. ...[text shortened]... to this and what is going on in the states? Is the world in a socialist/left winged take over?
    but wouldn't the government's actions in this case actually be a move in the libertarian direction? Legislation was introduced to ALLOW something that is currently banned.

    On the other hand, I have given up trying to figure out what the word "socialism" actually means. Your definition here seems to be as good as any,
  10. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    20 Oct '09 12:27
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Unfortunately most Americans lack even a fundamental understanding of how our own government works, much less how various forms of governance is defined. Tha's why it's so easy for politiians and pundits to wrecklessly throw around buzz words like "Socialism" and make them sound scarey.

    Unfortunately we're moving backwards instead of forward. I ...[text shortened]... flung all over the place. It seems the right is going back to its roots in this regard.
    Yeah, well, it's all about keeping the people stupid, and it is not a
    strategy exclusive of the U.S., I am afraid.

    The less educated and involved the establishment keeps people from the
    res publica the easier is to control them.

    Sad but true.
  11. 20 Oct '09 12:31
    Originally posted by whodey
    What I am describing is the governmnet usurping the popular opinion on such issues. It reminds me of health care reform in this country with a little over half opposing it. Mark my words, it will get passed regardless of the popular opinion.
    Popular opinion and polls often flucuate widely. People in government should listen to the opinions, but should never be a slave to them.
  12. 20 Oct '09 12:44
    I find it interesting that you are concerned whether or not it is a socialist decison. The better issue is whether or not it is a good idea. It is because the world does not need more children born to parents who don't want them.
  13. 20 Oct '09 13:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Unfortunately we're moving backwards instead of forward. In 1961 Ronald Reagon warned that Medicare was going "make us Socialist" and do all these scarey things that never happened. Through the 80's wild Communism accusations were flung all over the place. It seems the right is going back to its roots in this regard.[/b]
    Ronald Reagan was spot on if you ask me. Now the masses are dependent on Medicare/Medicaid and can't imagine living without it. Of course, now the call is to make more dependent, so while you watch government give birth to even more entitlements, and perhaps the entire health care industry, take to heart Reagans warning that was dismissed.

    Make no mistake, if government does not seize health care this go round, they will eventually do so. We have already started down this path.
  14. 20 Oct '09 13:07
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    Popular opinion and polls often flucuate widely. People in government should listen to the opinions, but should never be a slave to them.
    These are just observations so you can make your own. Of course, I would not expect those who are rabid left wingers to give credence to any of this since I am very are very content with it all.
  15. 20 Oct '09 13:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.france24.com/en/20091017-abortions-spain-portests-demonstration-legislation-liberalisation-madrid

    It appears that last saturday Spainards took to the streets denouncing legislation introduced to allow youg girls 16 years old and up to have abortions without their parents approval even though a little over half the population disagrees with it. ...[text shortened]... to this and what is going on in the states? Is the world in a socialist/left winged take over?
    Since Zapatero was elected, and won a second term as well, how are the reforms being "shoved down the throats" of the populace? Some people disagree with the reforms, and I'm sure the vast majority of the people now marching didn't vote for Zapatero in the first place.