Just for curiosities sake I am just wondering if anyone out there has researched into this. I have done a bit myself.
I am interested in the signs of the old beliefs integrated into the new. The pagan religions were integrated into Christianity by Constantine… founder of the Roman Catholic Church to put down civil war approximately 300 years after Christ. Did this start a living breathing religion after his death? It is said Constantine was a pagan until the end, and was baptized while incapacitated and could not refuse it.
Originally posted by rapalla7It is true that Constatine got baptized when he was dying. I never heard or read that they forced him. It is more likely that it was his own choice. In his time it was not uncommon to wait with baptism till the end of your life. That way you secured yourself to get rid of all your sins and to enter heaven. Another reason why he waited so long with his baptism may have been to stay friends with non-Christians during his life.
Just for curiosities sake I am just wondering if anyone out there has researched into this. I have done a bit myself.
I am interested in the signs of the old beliefs integrated into the new. The pagan religions were integrated into Christianity by Constantine… founder of the Roman Catholic Church to put down civil war approximately 300 years after C ...[text shortened]... ine was a pagan until the end, and was baptized while incapacitated and could not refuse it.
It is not easy to say what motivated Constatine to introduce Christianity. He probably was aware that this religion could enforce the unity and power of his empire. He certainly got rather involved in the developments of the Christian Church. He organized the Council of Nicea in 323 to solve the Arian controversy and to prevent schism.
The breath of Christianity did certainly spread around that time, but paganism ruled the outskirts, villages, and country life of the empire. Some new rules favored the spread of Christianity. Being a Christian helped for promotion in public professions.. But n the Roman army the Mithras cult was still very strong. That is also the reason why it was possible for Julian the Apoststate ( a nephew of Constantine) to restore paganism in 361.
I am not so sure what you mean with integrations of the pagan culture into Christianity. I don't think Constantinehimself favoured that. Although he believed strongly in all kind of epiphanies.
Fjord
maybe there is some pagan elements entered the christian practice, but that does not mean this is wrong. remember circumsized was the order untill the gentiles objected, they were the pagans, eating certain foods also. Druids did have some redeming qualitys they were supposed to have earth , nature as a goddess . we now refer to this as conservation, we do not worship this but just thinkers know we should look after this planet.
Here is an example........
In the wars with the Jews, the Romans considered them as enemies, as indeed they were. This feeling influenced the people of the Roman Empire in their attitude toward the true disciples who were mainly from Judaea. Many of the citizens of the empire refused to have anything to do with the new sect, because they considered it Jewish. Even the members of the assemblies from the nations were influenced by this spirit, and said, "Let us have nothing in common with this rabble of the Jews," and so everything in the new faith which had a taint of Judaism was discarded, and a new religion formed which had nothing Jewish about it. This new creation was called Christianity, but was not the faith of the Messiah.
Mainline Christianity is not the faith of the Savior, but an amalgamation of paganism, Judaism, sprinkled with a tincture of the true faith as taught by the Messiah. Hurlbut says, "As long as the church was mainly Jewish the Hebrew Sabbath was kept; but as it became increasingly Gentile the first day (Sunday) gradually took the place of the seventh" Ibid., page 45.
Not only was the Sabbath dropped from the new religion, and Sunday (a holy day of the pagans) adopted; but they likewise rejected the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and adopted Lent and Easter (Astarte’s Sunday). The Feast of Tabernacles and the Day of Atonement were forgotten, and the birthday of the sun god took their place as Christmas. Sprinkling took the place of immersion; immortality of the soul, adopted from paganism, replaced the doctrine of conditional eternal life; the resurrection and day of judgment were forgotten, and a continuous judgment was taught, through which the dead entered heaven or hell for eternity, no resurrection being necessary in this program. The kingdom of heaven, as an actual earth wide government under the whole heavens was ignored, as the members of the new religion sought to please the "powers that be." Truly, as Hurlbut said, "We find a church in many aspects different," from that of St. Paul, St. Peter, and the Messiah. This new church, so different, was Christianity, and for its deities it adopted various ones from the heathen, discarding the Most High of the Jewish scriptures, and His blessed Son Yahshua.
The new religion was not the old paganism, but really a new creation. It was a general amalgamation, made up of various beliefs of the new members of the old cults. They took something else from another, and another, and formed the whole into Christianity. Sunday from the pagan Romans, Easter from the pagan Egyptians, Christmas from the pagan Babylonians, the triune-god from the Gnostics, immortality from the pagan Greeks, and some of the Jewish faith, with some of the teachings of the Messiah, and many other doctrines, were combined, and the religion of Christianity was formed, which eventually became the state religion of the Roman Empire.
In many places the temples were turned into Christian churches. The services of worship increased in splendor, but were less spiritual and hearty than those of former times. "The forms and ceremonies of paganism gradually crept into the worship. Some of the old heathen feasts became church festivals with change of name and worship" (Hurlbut, Ibid. page 79).
The pagan temples not only became churches, the heathen festivals became church feasts, the Sabbath was replaced by Sunday, but even the heathen worship was transferred, as they substituted the adoration of the Virgin Mary for the worship of Venus and Diana. Pagans took their gods and goddesses such as Diana, Venus, Zeus or Jupiter, Apollo, Baal, etc. and carried them over into the new religion.
A number of books detail this transformation from the "old" Babylon to the "new" Babylon. Recommended are The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop and especially Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow. Write us for current prices.
There is only one religion revealed in the Scriptures. Down with Christianity, its pagan worship, its pagan deities, its pagan festivals, and its pagan doctrines, and back to the old pathway, Jeremiah 6:16, the way of salvation.
Worship the Mighty One of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, follow the true Savior and reject all traditions and commandments of men, worshipping the Eternal in Spirit and in Truth!
Originally posted by rapalla7What are you quoting from? Very interesting information.
Here is an example........
In the wars with the Jews, the Romans considered them as enemies, as indeed they were. This feeling influenced the people of the Roman Empire in their attitude toward the true disciples who were mainly from Judaea. Many of the citizens of the empire refused to have anything to do with the new sect, because they considered it J ...[text shortened]... ject all traditions and commandments of men, worshipping the Eternal in Spirit and in Truth!
I know that many pagan traditions have been incorporated into the traditions and practices of the church (Easter, Christmas) and secular tradition like Halloween and New Years. That's why my church does not make a big deal about most holidays - they are not mandated in the scriptures. They don't mind if you have an Easter Egg hunt, or send you kids out for Halloween, but they don't formalize them with a special church service either.
I still haven't settled on the Saturday vs Sunday issue - or can any day be a Sabbath as long as it's once a week?
You can go online and just type in keywords like Constantine the pagan or Roman Catholic roots/history etc. Anything in a comparison. It is odd that most people will acknowledge the holiday as transferring over, but I wonder how much more subtle things are still in there and were never removed. This was a new religion at the time and was greatly influenced by the once pagan founders.
Constantine could see the writing on the wall about the ideal of what he was to call Christianity. Rome was in danger of being blown apart by religious fighting and the pagans were going to lose, and Rome would fall in civil war. Is it not possible that perhaps Constantine not only trying to save his own neck, but his religion may have done more than just coincided the holidays but incorporated other things into Christianity that would make the transition a little smoother?
Would it be possible that the bible is slowly being stripped of these things slowly everytime there is a revision?
Mike
Originally posted by rapalla7
Just for curiosities sake I am just wondering if anyone out there has researched into this. I have done a bit myself.
I am interested in the signs of the old beliefs integrated into the new. The pagan religions were integrated into Christianity by Constantine… founder of the Roman Catholic Church to put down civil war approximately 300 years after Christ. Did this start a living breathing religion after his death? It is said Constantine was a pagan until the end, and was baptized while incapacitated and could not refuse it.
Christianity and indeed Judaism is mainly different from most ancient religions in that it is not based around fertility.
As for the rest, you can choose to believe that Christianity derived from Greek Mythology, or you can choose to believe that Homer borrowed from Christianity/Judaism. Just treat all your sources of historic evidence with the same amount of scrutiny that you do with the Bible.
Originally posted by pcaspianI agree, I just think that it would be interesting, to look into the differences and see if they can be tied back further. They all came from a different culture or tribe sepperated and have evolved as humans have. I would like to see the religion tree the same way they do for families or for animals. I believe that the jewish people were origionally worshiping the pagan gods?
Originally posted by rapalla7
[b]Just for curiosities sake I am just wondering if anyone out there has researched into this. I have done a bit myself.
I am interested in the signs of the old beliefs integrated into the new. ...[text shortened]... nce with the same amount of scrutiny that you do with the Bible.
Abraham
According to Jewish tradition, Abraham was born under the name Abram in the city of Ur in Babylonia in the year 1948 from Creation (circa 1800 BCE). He was the son of Terach, an idol merchant, but from his early childhood, he questioned the faith of his father and sought the truth. He came to believe that the entire universe was the work of a single Creator, and he began to teach this belief to others.
Abram tried to convince his father, Terach, of the folly of idol worship. One day, when Abram was left alone to mind the store, he took a hammer and smashed all of the idols except the largest one. He placed the hammer in the hand of the largest idol. When his father returned and asked what happened, Abram said, "The idols got into a fight, and the big one smashed all the other ones." His father said, "Don't be ridiculous. These idols have no life or power. They can't do anything." Abram replied, "Then why do you worship them?"
Eventually, the one true Creator that Abram had worshipped called to him, and made him an offer: if Abram would leave his home and his family, then G-d would make him a great nation and bless him. Abram accepted this offer, and the b'rit (covenant) between G-d and the Jewish people was established. (Gen. 12).
Originally posted by rapalla7
Eventually, the one true Creator that Abram had worshipped called to him, and made him an offer: if Abram would leave his home and his family, then G-d would make him a great nation and bless him. Abram accepted this offer, and the b'rit (covenant) between G-d and the Jewish people was established. (Gen. 12).
Rapella... way off man.
Abraham saw the folly in worshipping idols, something which in his day would have been possibly unheard of. The rest of it.. read the scriptures more accurately.
Originally posted by pcaspian<----------Grabs for more info.
Originally posted by rapalla7
[b]
Eventually, the one true Creator that Abram had worshipped called to him, and made him an offer: if Abram would leave his home and his family, then G-d would make him a great nation and bless him. Abram accepted this offer, and the b'rit (covenant) between G-d and the Jewish people was established. (Gen. 12).
...[text shortened]... would have been possibly unheard of. The rest of it.. read the scriptures more accurately.
Which part is way off?😕
Originally posted by pcaspianAbram was born in Ur of the Chaldees, located in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley region. From Ur, Abram and his family moved to Haran, about 600 miles (975 kilometers) to the northwest. There, at the age of 75, he received his calling from God:
Originally posted by rapalla7
[b]
Eventually, the one true Creator that Abram had worshipped called to him, and made him an offer: if Abram would leave his home and his family, then G-d would make him a great nation and bless hi ...[text shortened]... rd of. The rest of it.. read the scriptures more accurately.
"The Lord had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." (Genesis 12:1-3)
Abram obediently left for Canaan (today Israel) with his family, including his wife Sarai (later renamed Sarah) and his nephew Lot. He traveled down through the land, Shechem, Bethel, Ai, and right south toward the Negev. During that time The Lord appeared to him and told him that, "To your offspring I will give this land." (Genesis 12:7).
Many significant (for Abram, and us) events of Bible History followed - his time in Egypt to escape the famine in the land, the birth of his son Ishmael (through whom the Arab nations of today count their ancestry to him) by Hagar, the covenant of circumcision when he was 99, God's changing of his name to Abraham, The Destruction Of Sodom (where Lot and his wife and daughters had went to live), and the birth of Isaac (through whom the Jews of today count their ancestry to Abraham). It was Isaac's descendants who were to inherit the land of Canaan (Israel). See Division Of The Land.
An interesting point about Abraham is that although all bloodline Jews of today are descended from him, Abraham himself was not a Jew! Abraham's son Isaac, had a son Jacob (who was renamed Israel), who had 12 sons (from whom came The Tribes Of Israel), one of which was Judah, from whom came the Jews. The first "Jew" was Judah, Abraham's grandson (see The Chosen People). Both Jews and Arabs are equally descended from Abraham, but Abraham himself was neither "Jew" nor "Arab". Many fierce Middle East wars have since been fought between Abraham's children, right to the present time.
The greatest test of Abraham came when God commanded him to sacrifice Isaac. Despite the grief and horror that he must have been experiencing, Abraham was actually about to go through with it before being stopped by God (the event occurred on what was then barren Mount Moriah - today, the Temple Mount in Jerusalem where sits The Dome of The Rock). God said to him, "I swear by Myself, declares The Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky (see A Picture Of Heaven) and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed Me." (Genesis 22:16-18). Isaac was released unharmed.
Abraham lived a good long life. After he died, he was buried in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre that he had purchased to bury his wife Sarah, who had died before him. Later, Isaac, Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried in the same place, known today as the "Tomb of Patriarchs" in Hebron.
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/abraham.htm
Originally posted by rapalla7
<----------Grabs for more info.
Which part is way off?😕
Why don't you quote the scriptures or historically accurate documents to explain where you get your information from ? That way we can atleast all agree on a definitive set of data instead of ad-lib'ing as we go along. To find the answer you are looking for, is like making a pot of soup. If you add sugar... something is not gonna taste right.
cheers
Originally posted by pcaspianI whole heartedly agree with you. It is very difficult to find information about origions that are accurate. If your bible is like mine The story of abraham is pretty basic. If you have a different reference I would be glad to have it. I have decided it is time to read it all again. It has been a long time since I have read it in one shot. Abraham starts in genisis 11 and on.
Originally posted by rapalla7
[b]<----------Grabs for more info.
Which part is way off?😕
Why don't you quote the scriptures or historically accurate documents to explain where you get your information from ? That way ...[text shortened]... f you add sugar... something is not gonna taste right.
cheers
[/b]
Mike