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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Apr '12 14:56
    For the last 4 years the US has sent around $600,000,000 (US) every year, in aid to the Palestinians. Why does the USA keep sending hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinians every year? What does the USA get in return?

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
  2. 11 Apr '12 15:51
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    For the last 4 years the US has sent around $600,000,000 (US) every year, in aid to the Palestinians. Why does the USA keep sending hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinians every year? What does the USA get in return?

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
    This is one of the reasons for aid listed in the summary.
    ___________________________________________________________
    Combating, neutralizing, and preventing terrorism against Israel from the
    Islamist group Hamas and other militant organizations.
    ____________________________________________________________

    Shouldn't Israel be paying for that since they benefit from it? If anything, this just underscores the influence of the pro Israel lobby and makes it seem as if Scott Ritter was right.

    Israel receives over three times the amount you say the Palestinians have received.

    http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/100102.pdf

    You are not helping the case for Israel and the pro Israel lobby.
  3. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Apr '12 16:47
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    This is one of the reasons for aid listed in the summary.
    ___________________________________________________________
    Combating, neutralizing, and preventing terrorism against Israel from the
    Islamist group Hamas and other militant organizations.
    ____________________________________________________________

    Shouldn't Israel be paying for that since ...[text shortened]... ts/organization/100102.pdf

    You are not helping the case for Israel and the pro Israel lobby.
    If the US did not support Israel so heavily, the surrounding Arab nations would have removed Israel off the map literally by now.

    I take it you would like to see that happen.
  4. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    11 Apr '12 17:12
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    For the last 4 years the US has sent around $600,000,000 (US) every year, in aid to the Palestinians. Why does the USA keep sending hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinians every year? What does the USA get in return?

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
    I say cut off ALL foreign aid. We're broke. We need to keep that money here.
  5. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    11 Apr '12 17:13
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If the US did not support Israel so heavily, the surrounding Arab nations would have removed Israel off the map literally by now.

    I take it you would like to see that happen.
    I think we can cut back support safely. Israel has the largest army in the region. Israel is the only nuclear power in the region. They can handle themselves.
  6. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Apr '12 17:41
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I think we can cut back support safely. Israel has the largest army in the region. Israel is the only nuclear power in the region. They can handle themselves.
    Maybe you are right and the next US govt might do just that.

    Israel is the only nuclear power in the region today. Things might be different tomorrow.
  7. 11 Apr '12 20:04
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If the US did not support Israel so heavily, the surrounding Arab nations would have removed Israel off the map literally by now.

    I take it you would like to see that happen.
    I have no desire for any nation to be wiped off the map. You might want to ask yourself why the Empire created a Jewish state in Palestine instead of Germany though. It is the Germans that treated Jews so badly. They should have had their land taken as punishment for it, not Palestinians.
  8. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Apr '12 20:45
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I have no desire for any nation to be wiped off the map. You might want to ask yourself why the Empire created a Jewish state in Palestine instead of Germany though. It is the Germans that treated Jews so badly. They should have had their land taken as punishment for it, not Palestinians.
    What a twisted load of garbage !!

    First clearly you dont mind if Israel exists, just not where they are right now .. anywhere else in the world is fine.

    Second its ok to displace the Germans becuase in your opinion they treated the Jews badly.

    You have to be a Palestinian to talk such nonsense.

    You need to read your history to see how the Jews got into Palestine. Its not like the British created a state in 1948 and then invited the Jews to return. The Jews were returning to Palestine since the 1890s. The Jew returned and BOUGHT MOST OF THE LAND FROM THE PALESTINIANS, or occupied lands which had no owner. In those days there was no real government and no Palestinian Authority and the land was under the control of the British Empire who were mostly absent. Sure there were petty fighting and skirmishes.

    The important thing which you are not taking into account is that the land was a $hitt-hole prior to the Jews arriving there. It was the Jews and the billions of $$$ which they brought with them that caused the land the develop and for employment opportunities to arise. They brought in skilled labour and technology. Arabs from all over the region flocked to Palestine to benefit from this influx of money.

    By 1948 the Jews had developed the land. Desert became farmland and factories started producing goods for export.

    Tell me, who do you think any sane British govt will give the land to .. the Palestinians who were unable to manage themselves much less a nation or the Jews who had resources and know-how ?
  9. 11 Apr '12 21:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999


    The important thing which you are not taking into account is that the land was a $hitt-hole prior to the Jews arriving there.

    By 1948 the Jews had developed the land. Desert became farmland and factories started producing goods for export.
    You are so full of it!!!!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_Crescent

    So you expect me to believe the Fertile Crescent Region was a $hitt hole???
    You have an unbelievable ability to fool yourself.
  10. 11 Apr '12 21:56
    Originally posted by Rajk999


    You need to read your history to see how the Jews got into Palestine. Its not like the British created a state in 1948 and then invited the Jews to return.
    You need to read your history. Here is a history lesson.

    http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/brit-mandate-pal-isr-prime.html
  11. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Apr '12 23:13
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    You need to read your history. Here is a history lesson.

    http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/brit-mandate-pal-isr-prime.html
    Google the economic history of Israel. That will give you the facts of how Palestine developed. Here is an excerpt ..

    In the period from 1922 to 1947 real net domestic product (NDP) of the Jewish sector grew at an average rate of 13.2 percent, and in 1947 accounted for 54 percent of the NDP of the Jewish and Arab economies together. NDP per capita in the Jewish sector grew at a rate of 4.8 percent; by the end of the period it was 8.5 times larger in than in 1922, and 2.5 times larger than in the Arab sector (Metzer, 1998).

    http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/halevi.israel

    The Jews developed Palestine from 1900 to 1948 with their own resources and funds. Before that it was a $$hitthole.

    I know whats your problem pal .. its the same problem everyone had, throughout history from Pharaohs to the Herods to Hitler. The Jews are hardworking, industrious and talented people. Because of that they have economic power wherever they are and quite often they have political clout. They control large corporations and influence governments. They keep to themselves and are not sociable so they are not well liked. So you hate them. I understand.
  12. 11 Apr '12 23:55
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Google the economic history of Israel. That will give you the facts of how Palestine developed. Here is an excerpt ..

    [i]In the period from 1922 to 1947 real net domestic product (NDP) of the Jewish sector grew at an average rate of 13.2 percent, and in 1947 accounted for 54 percent of the NDP of the Jewish and Arab economies together. NDP per capita in ...[text shortened]... p to themselves and are not sociable so they are not well liked. So you hate them. I understand.
    I don't hate Jewish people at all. I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

    For once I can agree with you for the most part. The Jews are hardworking, industrious and talented people. I agree with that.

    What I don't agree with is that they are god's chosen people and that they have some god given right to land in Palestine. If they have a right to land they occupied over a thousand years ago and lost it, I would have to give my land back to the Native Americans since far less time has elapsed since they occupied it.

    If the Jews are chosen people what does that make everybody else, garbage? I am fine with Jews that respect other people and their rights. I have a great deal of contempt for any people who think they are better than everyone else and have a false sense of entitlement.
  13. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    12 Apr '12 00:38
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I don't hate Jewish people at all. I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

    For once I can agree with you for the most part. The Jews are hardworking, industrious and talented people. I agree with that.

    What I don't agree with is that they are god's chosen people and that they have some god given right to land in Palestine. If they have a rig ...[text shortened]... y people who think they are better than everyone else and have a false sense of entitlement.
    Who said anything about Gods chosen people?
    Who said anything about God-given right to Palestine?

    The British gave Palestine to the Jews.
    What does God have to do with that?

    The US helped Israel to develop etc
    What does God have to do with that?

    I knew the God's chosen people excuse would come out.
  14. 12 Apr '12 01:41
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Who said anything about Gods chosen people?
    Who said anything about God-given right to Palestine?

    The British gave Palestine to the Jews.
    What does God have to do with that?

    The US helped Israel to develop etc
    What does God have to do with that?

    I knew the God's chosen people excuse would come out.
    Many Israelis believe they are god's chosen people, right? Isn't that the excuse many of them use?
    Now you say the British gave Palestine to the Jews? Didn't you say the British didn't give the Jews land before? Did you change your view since I enlightened you with a history lesson? If so, I'm glad you read the link I provided.

    Another part of history mentioned in that link is that the "Arabs were angered by Britain's failure to fulfill its promise to create an independent Arab state." You see, the Arabs have a sense of entitlement too. The British reneged on their agreement. Now both Jews and Palestinians have a sense of entitlement. That seems to be the root of the problem.

    Yes, the USA helped Israel develop. Isn't Israel done developing yet? Why is my government still sending 3 billion dollars per year to Israel? More importantly, why does Israel feel they need it? We have already agreed that the Jewish people are hardworking and successful peoples who are talented. They are doing quite well now in Israel, so why do they need more money? Can't these hardworking and successful people take care of themselves?

    My country is over 15 trillion dollars in debt. When is Israel going to help us pay this debt off? Do they have any intention of returning the favor or is this just another sense of entitlement the Israelis have? My children will have to work very hard to pay the interest on this debt when they become adults, and their unborn children (assuming they have any) will have to as well. Perhaps they will not be able to afford having children, who knows the way this debt keeps piling up.

    Economic slavery is nothing new. It was written in the bible long ago, only it was called bondage back then. Here is an excerpt from Genesis chapter 14:

    Joseph and the Famine

    13There was no food, however, in the whole region because the famine was severe; both Egypt and Canaan wasted away because of the famine. 14Joseph collected all the money that was to be found in Egypt and Canaan in payment for the grain they were buying, and he brought it to Pharaoh’s palace. 15When the money of the people of Egypt and Canaan was gone, all Egypt came to Joseph and said, “Give us food. Why should we die before your eyes? Our money is used up.”

    16“Then bring your livestock,” said Joseph. “I will sell you food in exchange for your livestock, since your money is gone.” 17So they brought their livestock to Joseph, and he gave them food in exchange for their horses, their sheep and goats, their cattle and donkeys. And he brought them through that year with food in exchange for all their livestock.

    18When that year was over, they came to him the following year and said, “We cannot hide from our lord the fact that since our money is gone and our livestock belongs to you, there is nothing left for our lord except our bodies and our land. 19Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Buy us and our land in exchange for food, and we with our land will be in bondage to Pharaoh. Give us seed so that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”

    20So Joseph bought all the land in Egypt for Pharaoh. The Egyptians, one and all, sold their fields, because the famine was too severe for them. The land became Pharaoh’s, 21and Joseph reduced the people to servitude,c from one end of Egypt to the other. 22However, he did not buy the land of the priests, because they received a regular allotment from Pharaoh and had food enough from the allotment Pharaoh gave them. That is why they did not sell their land.

    23Joseph said to the people, “Now that I have bought you and your land today for Pharaoh, here is seed for you so you can plant the ground. 24But when the crop comes in, give a fifth of it to Pharaoh. The other four-fifths you may keep as seed for the fields and as food for yourselves and your households and your children.”

    25“You have saved our lives,” they said. “May we find favor in the eyes of our lord; we will be in bondage to Pharaoh.”

    26So Joseph established it as a law concerning land in Egypt—still in force today—that a fifth of the produce belongs to Pharaoh. It was only the land of the priests that did not become Pharaoh’s.

    27Now the Israelites settled in Egypt in the region of Goshen. They acquired property there and were fruitful and increased greatly in number.