Originally posted by rapalla7And jesus said do what? Did he say believe in him or did he say do the commandments?
Not everyone will get into heaven.
Matthew 19:16-30
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus s ...[text shortened]... rit everlasting life. 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Feivel
Originally posted by rapalla7The bible says he went to Damascus. It doesn't matter if it were Damascus or another city under king Atreas. The fact is he didn't have any authority and neithr did the high priest in anything besides a Roman or Jewish city. now if it was Damascus or not, please explain how and why that would matter. This is getting off the topic of Paul and onto a different topic that is really "Is the bible valid." This really deserves to be in another thread. Please don't cloud the issue of Paul with questions about the validity of the bible. We can only work with the evidence we have. Now it is true that if the bible isn't valid then Paul and jesus not to mention everything else in the bible is not true (at least not the biblical accounts) so why even bring it up. Are you insinuating that the bible isn't valid? If so, start a new thread and we can look at that topic there. In this thread please discuss Paul. Since the bible says Damascus...unfortunately it is Damascus unless you want to present evidence that the conversion story was forged.
Please explain.
Feivel
Originally posted by FeivelHe said follow the comandment, give up all of your worldly goods ( i take it to mean the self) and follow him.
And jesus said do what? Did he say believe in him or did he say do the commandments?
Feivel
They are all key requirements.
I know of these requirements to get into heaven, and have sited them before in arguement.
Are we off topic here or is this something to do with paul, or his carrying the message of Jesus.
Originally posted by rapalla7So summing up
He said follow the comandment, give up all of your worldly goods ( i take it to mean the self) and follow him.
They are all key requirements.
I know of these requirements to get into heaven, and have sited them before in arguement.
Are we off topic here or is this something to do with paul, or his carrying the message of Jesus.
A.Jesus - do the commandments
B.Paul - believe in jesus
A=B? Not a chance 🙂
Paul is not offering the same "product" as jesus but I brought up the question of Paul not the "product." It is off topic and I did post that already so let's return to the discussion odf the events on Damascus road.
Feivel.
Originally posted by rapalla7By you do you mean jesus? If you mean jesus, he was questioned by another jew. If you mean why would a jew be concerned with giving the "gospel" to a gentile that would take some explaining but let me digress from the topic to address that. It is true that it is "hard" (to use a term loosely) for a gentile to convert to Judaism at this time. What we are in fact speaking of is not the present but the Jews of jesus era. Jesus was not creating or starting a religion but was essentially preaching an extention of Judaism. If you read of the Jerusalem council (in Acts) you will see what was to be required of gentiles to become christians. Paul is the one who essentialy brought jesus to the gentiles and did so ignoring the decision of the Jerusalem council. No please can we try to stay on the topic of the road to Damascus?
I see where you are leading this line, but what would you....a jew be at all interested in the soul of a gentile, and what people may be misslead to believe?
Feivel
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Originally posted by FeivelJesus said to follow him. What do you think that means? Apply that to a regular person. If you were a follower of the Dali Lama, do you think you would just follow him around? Do his followers not believe him?
And jesus said do what? Did he say believe in him or did he say do the commandments?
Feivel
Originally posted by Coletti1. The Dali Lama is not thought of as jesus nor is he jesus.
Jesus said to [b]follow him. What do you think that means? Apply that to a regular person. If you were a follower of the Dali Lama, do you think you would just follow him around? Do his followers not believe him?[/b]
2. Believe him is quite different from believe in him.
3. Yes he did say do the commandments then follow (not believe in) me
4. This is not the topic...we are discussing Paul's trip on the road to Damascus. If you want to discuss Paul vs. jesus...start a different thread.
Feivel
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Originally posted by FeivelWhat's the difference between believe in someone and believe someone? Can you believe in someone and not believe them? Can you believe in someone and not believe anything you know about him?
1. The Dali Lama is not thought of as jesus nor is he jesus.
2. Believe him is quite different from believe in him.
3. Yes he did say do the commandments then follow (not believe in) me
4. This is not the topic...we are discussing Paul's ...[text shortened]... nt to discuss Paul vs. jesus...start a different thread.
Feivel
There's the problem. You think to believe in someone means to have good feelings about them, or maybe feel trust. But that's wrong, to believe in him simply means to believe his words and that means to believe what the Bible tells us about him. That's all. So yes, be in him does mean believe him. Don't confuse feelings with understanding and acceptance.
And I'm just replying to your comment about following Jesus.
So do you really think the Jesus just meant by "follow me" what the butler means when he says "follow me" - just walk behind him. To be a follower means to believe in that person, and to believe in that person means you believe what that person says is true and correct.
If I say to shove off, am I'm I telling you to push against you computer screen? Follow me means believe in me. It's really quite obvious.
And the Dali Lama does have followers. I guess they believe in the Dali, but that don't believe anything he says or anything other say about him.
Originally posted by Colettidiscuss the topic or is that to dificult for you? This is your second off topic post in this thread tonight and your three posts in the other thread are all off topic. I ask you once again nicely to please stay on topic. The next off topic post of yours in either of the threads I started will be ignored by me. Simple enough for a child to understand so why do you refuse?
What's the difference between believe in someone and believe someone? Can you believe in someone and not believe them? Can you believe in someone and not believe anything you know about him?
There's the problem. You think to believe in someone means to have good feelings about them, or maybe feel trust. But that's wrong, to believe in him simply ...[text shortened]... believe in the Dali, but that don't believe anything he says or anything other say about him.
Feivel
Originally posted by FeivelI guess the obvious is too painful for you. You can't handle it.
discuss the topic or is that to dificult for you? This is your second off topic post in this thread tonight and your three posts in the other thread are all off topic. I ask you once again nicely to please stay on topic. The next off topic post of yours in either of the threads I started will be ignored by me. Simple enough for a child to understand so why do you refuse?
Feivel