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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 12 Dec '11 16:58
    Who is in favor of having more taxes taken out of your pay? (Wouldn't bother me.) I know we all want the 47 percent or so who do not pay income tax to take home less pay. Heck, why don't we pass that law? Why tax millionaires when so many people are freeloading? Should we hike these payroll taxes and cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid by 25 percent? Isn't that preferable to increasing taxes on the small business job creators? Please discuss how much more taxes you are willing to pay.
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Dec '11 17:07
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Who is in favor of having more taxes taken out of your pay? (Wouldn't bother me.) I know we all want the 47 percent or so who do not pay income tax to take home less pay. Heck, why don't we pass that law? Why tax millionaires when so many people are freeloading? Should we hike these payroll taxes and cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid by 25 pe ...[text shortened]... n the small business job creators? Please discuss how much more taxes you are willing to pay.
    I'm fine paying a few extra bucks in income taxes if the idiots in Washington were capable of spending it competently. Whether they call it payroll tax or income tax is immaterial.
  3. 12 Dec '11 17:11
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'm fine paying a few extra bucks in income taxes if the idiots in Washington were capable of spending it competently. Whether they call it payroll tax or income tax is immaterial.
    But the payroll route would ensure that everyone pays more. Do you favor that or the income tax route?
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Dec '11 17:20
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    But the payroll route would ensure that everyone pays more. Do you favor that or the income tax route?
    Even most of those who don't pay net income tax would essentially be "paying" a higher income tax by virtue of receiving a smaller earned income tax credit refund if income tax in lower brackets were increased.

    While I have no problem with progressive taxation (in fact, it is necessary), I also don't think it unfair to have a progressive tax system alongside a flat payroll tax. Therefore, I don't have a problem with an increase in payroll tax, although if having the SS tax pick up again at $250k of income (as Obama once proposed) would do the trick, that is probably preferable.
  5. 12 Dec '11 18:37
    So, is it the consensus that every American (except those who have an actual voice in government) want to pay higher taxes?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Dec '11 18:45
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    So, is it the consensus that every American (except those who have an actual voice in government) want to pay higher taxes?
    No, I'd venture to guess that most Americans do not want to pay higher taxes.
  7. 12 Dec '11 21:36
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    But the payroll route would ensure that everyone pays more. Do you favor that or the income tax route?
    The problem is that there isn't a real difference. The original opposition to the payroll tax, was that it was a 2nd income tax. SCOTUS perfidiously circumvented that by arguing that the payroll tax was an excise.

    There are some very basic problems in the tax structure, involving motives, and the passions they arouse in the people. From the beginning, the income tax was presented as a way to get more out of the rich. In practice over time, it has caught almost everyone in its web.

    One problem with both is that they are so easily avoided, and they don't reach a growing underground economy. Sales taxes involve far fewer record keeping requirements, and enforcement efforts, and get to people who have money and are spending it without intrusiveness.
  8. 12 Dec '11 21:37
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    So, is it the consensus that every American (except those who have an actual voice in government) want to pay higher taxes?
    Absolutely not. Every preparer of income taxes advertises the promise of minimizing taxpaying. The great majority of Americans think they pay too much, but others don't pay enough.
  9. 12 Dec '11 21:39
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'm fine paying a few extra bucks in income taxes if the idiots in Washington were capable of spending it competently. Whether they call it payroll tax or income tax is immaterial.
    Do you have any indication from either party that these knuckleheads can behave as you wish?
  10. 12 Dec '11 22:46
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Who is in favor of having more taxes taken out of your pay? (Wouldn't bother me.) I know we all want the 47 percent or so who do not pay income tax to take home less pay. Heck, why don't we pass that law? Why tax millionaires when so many people are freeloading? Should we hike these payroll taxes and cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid by 25 pe ...[text shortened]... n the small business job creators? Please discuss how much more taxes you are willing to pay.
    I would pay considerably more for real social medicine.
  11. 12 Dec '11 23:04
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Sales taxes involve far fewer record keeping requirements, and enforcement efforts, and get to people who have money and are spending it without intrusiveness.
    Absurd.
  12. 12 Dec '11 23:15
    Originally posted by sh76
    Even most of those who don't pay net income tax would essentially be "paying" a higher income tax by virtue of receiving a smaller earned income tax credit refund if income tax in lower brackets were increased.

    While I have no problem with progressive taxation (in fact, it is necessary), I also don't think it unfair to have a progressive tax system alongside ...[text shortened]... t $250k of income (as Obama once proposed) would do the trick, that is probably preferable.
    Payroll tax isn't a flat tax. It's a reverse progressive (call it regressive) tax.
  13. Standard member skipper2666
    Why so serious ????
    12 Dec '11 23:26
    Here is what some of your tax dollars is paying for

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=American+troops+shooting+civilians+iraq&page=1
  14. 14 Dec '11 15:34
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Absurd.
    How so? Other than applying for waivers in special cases, there is no record keeping or enforcement arm like the IRS in the collection of sales taxes.
  15. 14 Dec '11 15:39
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Who is in favor of having more taxes taken out of your pay? (Wouldn't bother me.) I know we all want the 47 percent or so who do not pay income tax to take home less pay. Heck, why don't we pass that law? Why tax millionaires when so many people are freeloading? Should we hike these payroll taxes and cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid by 25 pe ...[text shortened]... n the small business job creators? Please discuss how much more taxes you are willing to pay.
    By the way, the House passed a bill granting Obama his holiday on the Payroll tax. Let's see what the Senate does with it.

    Also, I wonder what the concerns of people are about the viability of Social Security? This payroll tax holiday, is not spending Social Security funds by putting them into treasury bonds at interest. This is simply failing to collect the tax for another year. How much sooner will the system collapse? Or will this provide the incentive to co-mingle Social Security and the general budget?