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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member empovsun
    Adepto 'er perfectu
    10 Sep '13 00:31
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-surveillance-encryption/


    what have you been buying lately?
    and nevermind individual privacy rights - what about corporation's privacy rights?
  2. 10 Sep '13 02:55
    Originally posted by empovsun
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-surveillance-encryption/


    what have you been buying lately?
    and nevermind individual privacy rights - what about corporation's privacy rights?
    Banking hardly exists any more.
  3. 10 Sep '13 03:51
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Banking hardly exists any more.
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    11 Sep '13 18:28
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    Sadly...that not far from the truth!
  5. 11 Sep '13 18:54 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by empovsun
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-surveillance-encryption/


    what have you been buying lately?
    and nevermind individual privacy rights - what about corporation's privacy rights?
    There is, though not widely used a system that can tag / track any item in a store - e.g socks - the tags are nearly invisible, thread like and can be used to identify you and follow you round town..

    My generation is totally and utterly spied on, why we must legalise cannabis or have riots when the authorities try to enforce laws based on these stasi systems - I think we do need the odd riot to counter whats going on - the laws in the uk are draconian for drugs at least and not built for 24-7 spying - I had a job using databases to catch crime and I chucked it in to try and work in Holland - that's the only country that could turn on a system like this and not make criminals out of half its population.

    Your data is property of the police, credit agencies, home office, nsa, mi5, the courts - but it certainly isn't yours anymore.
  6. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    13 Sep '13 11:13
    Originally posted by empovsun
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-surveillance-encryption/


    what have you been buying lately?
    and nevermind individual privacy rights - what about corporation's privacy rights?
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world!
  7. Standard member empovsun
    Adepto 'er perfectu
    13 Sep '13 14:11
    Originally posted by e4chris
    There is, though not widely used a system that can tag / track any item in a store - e.g socks - the tags are nearly invisible, thread like and can be used to identify you and follow you round town..

    My generation is totally and utterly spied on, why we must legalise cannabis or have riots when the authorities try to enforce laws based on these stasi syst ...[text shortened]... ce, credit agencies, home office, nsa, mi5, the courts - but it certainly isn't yours anymore.
    you would think that the services WE PAY FOR would come back to us in savings for said services. like verision wireless selling legal wire taps to the feds, or whatever 3rd party...but noooo can't sell us top notch cell phones at more reasonable prices, can you?

    technically, our tax dollars are being spent to pay phone companies for legal spying on ourselves! i say, give me a free cell phone, at least.
  8. Standard member empovsun
    Adepto 'er perfectu
    13 Sep '13 14:12
    Originally posted by bill718
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world!
    my main concern is corporate espionage at a global scale...
  9. 13 Sep '13 21:01 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by empovsun
    you would think that the services WE PAY FOR would come back to us in savings for said services. like verision wireless selling legal wire taps to the feds, or whatever 3rd party...but noooo can't sell us top notch cell phones at more reasonable prices, can you?

    technically, our tax dollars are being spent to pay phone companies for legal spying on ourselves! i say, give me a free cell phone, at least.
    I can't understand what is happening in the US with Prism and the NSA. But in the UK no ones announced publicly such widespread surveillance.

    I blame Google; In that they were the first company in the UK at least to amass a huge data set without any regard for our data protection laws - How do you contact them to get your data set? - In the UK they are obliged to give 6 years if they have it. What's more banks and mobile companies do comply with such requests (copy statements and credit files) and don't sell their customer data on to anyone wishing to advertise. With certain websites, facebook. google, bing, youtube, emails its like your data is their property and there's no concept of data protection / ownership for the user.

    I remember the US has Known Your Customer laws a bit like our Data Protection laws. but I don't know how they work. I recon the NSA and MI5 should be allowed to spy on anything in their domain, but with some kind of warrant. Especially if they want to use the data to arrest people.
  10. 13 Sep '13 23:31
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    When I said "banking hardly exists" I referred to local banking, a service business between customers and local banks.

    The later part of your polemic is largely true of national banks, and cartel banks, which have an entirely different character than the local bank which was a money warehouse, and secondarily a place where local people could get a loan.

    Proper, market driven interest rates, discouraged random borrowing and lending. Also market driven interest rates on savings limited how much risk people would be willing to take when investing. I remember when I could earn 6% on a passbook account.
  11. 13 Sep '13 23:44
    Originally posted by empovsun
    you would think that the services WE PAY FOR would come back to us in savings for said services. like verision wireless selling legal wire taps to the feds, or whatever 3rd party...but noooo can't sell us top notch cell phones at more reasonable prices, can you?

    technically, our tax dollars are being spent to pay phone companies for legal spying on ourselves! i say, give me a free cell phone, at least.
    If you want a cell phone which is just a phone, you can get one virtually free, and the service dirt cheap.

    The newer generations of smart phones are computers in miniature. Ok, we now recognize how fast data proliferates, and somewhat how it is gathered. What are we doing to slow it down? I don't carry a discount, loyalty card for any store. If they refuse to scan a generic card on the counter, I walk out leaving my intended purchases, and don't return. When a store asks for my name or any other data, I simply refuse. I use cash, seldom debit or credit care, save where there is no alternative.

    How about some other practical suggestions. Griping may make us feel better, but can we change things as consumers?