@moonbus said"Twain wrote Huck Finn as entertainment, but re-writing it is falsifying a piece of cultural history. "
Twain wrote Huck Finn as entertainment, but re-writing it is falsifying a piece of cultural history. Of course Twain could not have known what a load the N-word would someday bear, and that is exactly my point. We cannot know either. Five, ten, twenty years from now, the PC crowd will condemn some other words, and there is no end of it. They’ll be re-writing not only Huck F ...[text shortened]... there is only one copy of original sources.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-56537339
I ask again. Is a 10 page summary of Huck Finn you write for a school report "falsifying a piece of cultural history". Are the screenplays adapted after huck finn and aimed as children ?
"Five, ten, twenty years from now, the PC crowd will condemn some other words"
And?
"and there is no end of it. "
should there be?
" They’ll be re-writing not only Huck Finn, but Steinbeck, Hemingway, Faulkner, Kesey, Kerouac, Capote, then Updike, Vonnegut, Wharton. "
So? Don't read the rewrites. Read the originals.
"Expunging the N-word from Huck Finn is literary vandalism,"
You're exaggerating. Removing the nword from huck finn does nothing to lessen the impact of the horrors depicted in it. But the solution is simple: don't read that adaptation. Don't buy it.
"same as prudish Christians chipping the penises off Roman statues."
With the caveat that it's a different thing to chop an original work of art and another thing to make a copy. Next thing you will say is that someone painting a Monalisa with modern make up and looking at an iphone is also vandalism.
If i build a replica of Westminster Abbey and then spray paint penises on its sides, it's my right. (and my personal waste of money). You can choose not to visit it should i open it to the public.
"See for example the following article, which illustrates how fragile history is. Sometimes there is only one copy of original sources."
Then revisit this subject when only nword-less Huck Fins remain.
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@shavixmir saidAnd so does the U.N.:
No. You find it a racist characture.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/29/world/europe/zwarte-piet-netherlands-united-nations.html
"U.N. Urges the Netherlands to Stop Portrayals of ‘Black Pete’ Character"
Lots of people don’t.
What matters is who these "lots of people" are. "Lots of people" have no problem with "China virus".
The worst thing about the Black Pete discussion is that the social justice warriors (or activists) place speed of change above rationality.
Some things should be changed quickly. Racist practices are one of them.
However, the pressure, exaggeration and false narrative (slaves, etc. ) attempt to make whole generations view something they’ve spent decades seeing as innocent fun as something evil. Making out that if you like Black Pete, you’re obviously a racist.
Let's assume people genuinely can't understand why walking around in black face portraying a character that not only was a slave, but originated when the Netherlands still had slavery; they genuinely just see it as good clean fun.
Knowing how this character affects people and the deeply offensive stereotypes people feel the character brings; is it that big a deal to just drop a side character who's ultimately secondary the larger figure of St. Nicholas?
A person's humanity is more important than offensive jokes or fictional characters. More importantly, the people making the offensive jokes or celebrating the offensive character typically belong to the group that oppressed the people being mocked. Keep that in mind if you remember nothing else from this discussion.
@vivify saidAnd now address the results in society.
And so does the U.N.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/29/world/europe/zwarte-piet-netherlands-united-nations.html
"U.N. Urges the Netherlands to Stop Portrayals of ‘Black Pete’ Character"
Lots of people don’t.
What matters is who these "lots of people" are. "Lots of people" have no problem with "China virus".
[b]The worst thing about the Black Pete disc ...[text shortened]... essed the people being mocked. Keep that in mind if you remember nothing else from this discussion.
Where do you think this is heading?
Do you think I recommend gently nudging out of the goodness of my FFing heart?
Who do you think is going to be forced to do the FFing fighting when this gets out of hand? The whining pish mongers who are OH SO BLOODY INSULTED?
I don’t think so.
Been here before, my friend. Because unlike them, I’ve fought neo-nazis on the streets.
God damn. Seriously. SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE!
All because of a kid’s party with face painting.
Sometimes the rationality of you activists just pisses me off.
I sometimes wonder how it must feel to be so self-rightious and not have to worry about anything other than your own, personal, little struggles. The tarnished ego you have to live with because you feel insulted.
Always knowing the State will eventually sort it out. Never wondering about the people who have to slog it out when it gets physical (which it will do before it gets better).
Self-centered, selfish snowflakes.
Wake up and smell the FFing coffee. It’s not paper you are playing with!
@shavixmir saidThe "bigger picture" is exactly the point.
And now address the results in society.
Where do you think this is heading?
Do you think I recommend gently nudging out of the goodness of my FFing heart?
Who do you think is going to be forced to do the FFing fighting when this gets out of hand? The whining pish mongers who are OH SO BLOODY INSULTED?
I don’t think so.
Been here before, my friend. Because unlike ...[text shortened]... tered, selfish snowflakes.
Wake up and smell the FFing coffee. It’s not paper you are playing with!
Remember when you started a thread about virulent anti-left sentiment in your neck of the woods? My response was that it's more important to stamp it out before it becomes the epidemic you posted about.
This isn't about the hurt feelings of some random sensitive hippies. This is about feeding hate. Pay attention: they use all the same rhetoric:
"They're taking away our tradition.:
"They're erasing history."
"People should be free to do what they want."
This is the same tripe people in the U.S. use to defend Confederate statues and symbols. They use the same condescending language about PC culture people being to sensitive. So what they literally fought to keep slavery. So what "Black Pete" is designed in the same way as racist cartoons from the 1930's. So what we're all walking around in the open in blackface.
"Where do you think society is heading?"
Toward the same anti-left s**thole you posted about.
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@vivify saidI do not think confederate statues should be torn down.
The "bigger picture" is exactly the point.
Remember when you started a thread about virulent anti-left sentiment in your neck of the woods? My response was that it's more important to stamp it out before it becomes the epidemic you posted about.
This isn't about the hurt feelings of some random sensitive hippies. This is about feeding hate. Pay attention: they use ...[text shortened]...
"Where do you think society is heading?"
Toward the same anti-left s**thole you posted about.
They should have information placed beside it, putting them in context.
Don’t whitewash history. Own it.
As for the final point in your post: exactly!
And it is avoidable. Cultural change comes slowly, shortly or with extreme violence.
And shortly in this context means the changes aren’t long lasting.
The Black Pete discussion, or to put it more sharply, the way the discussion was engaged, has enabled the pushers in society to polarise many people who were in the centre on this issue.
In a society where this was already a problem (since the assissination of Pim Fortuyn).
It will end in violence. And it won’t be the anti-Pete activists, the PC brigade or you slogging it out with the fascists.
And hell be damned, I’m getting too old for this crap.