27 Apr 04
Originally posted by stokerI don't think money is a big motivator for British MPs, as they could make far more by going into business, or even by becoming Eurocrats! I have a feeling that Neil Kinnock earns more than Tony Blair, for example. Of course there's always corruption, but I don't think that's a very serious problem in the UK.
In a report out today it states that wemen are more disalutioned than men well on a personal note ive been saddened over 20+ years as they no matter which only want another term and better pay.
Of course politicians want to stay in power. But maybe if the electorate paid more attention, we'd vote for the ones that most deserved it! We only have ourselves to blame really if we keeping electing really daft politicians (and I'm not saying we do).
Similarly, people complain about the quality of tabloid journalism, and the tabloids retort that it sells papers. That is the way of life: if people are foolish enough to prefer bad over good, then they'll always be someone to sell the bad stuff to them. Anything else would be a totalitarian state where people only do what the government says is good for them.
Unfortunately the exclusion of women and ethnic minorities, where it occurs, is self-perpetuating: people see that there aren't many politicians like them, so they feel that politics isn't about or for them and lose interest in it. This makes them less likely to start a political career.
27 Apr 04
some point you make are valid but the choice between L & C is limited, im 50+ and live in a labour ward. my choice is only to move?. But if that infers im a C or Lib no im not i like to decide at elections. It must be the same for tory wards no choice. Yes we voters are to blame as there are to many stallwarts in each ward to change. Thanks for your views.
27 Apr 04
Originally posted by AcolyteI agree with your point about money. However, most MPs are also company director (sometimes on several boards).
Of course politicians want to stay in power. But maybe if the electorate paid more attention, we'd vote for the ones that most deserved it! We only have ourselves to blame really if we keeping electing really daft politicians (and I'm not saying we do).
You say vote for the ones who deserve it most. At the moment I don't see any of the parties who deserve it at all.
27 Apr 04
Originally posted by stokerI think one of the largest reasons people are not really interested in politics is because it seems that it doesn't matter who you vote for, they always end up doing the same anyway.
In a report out today it states that wemen are more disalutioned than men well on a personal note ive been saddened over 20+ years as they no matter which only want another term and better pay.
Look at new labour for instance. Privatising the subways, pushing through back-door privatisation of elements of the health system, tuition fees...all the same old policies they were opposed to during the 1980's.
Look at new labours rhetoric on refugees. They make Thatcher sound like a human rights campaigner...
So, whether you vote labour or tory, you're going to end up with the same crackerjack policies. This doesn't motivate people to vote.
Another component of the lack of interest in politics is education. Not just education at school, but education in daily life. Look at the 6 O'clock news on the BBC and convince me that it's not aimed at 4 year olds. Dumbed down to the extent it's a farce.
If people aren't interested in learning new things and doing new things and experiencing new things, they're not going to be very interested in abstract concepts like politics and debate.
As long as you can keep people frightened of losing their jobs, losing their houses (because they had to buy them, because they can't rent them anymore) and rearing their children, they're not going to have the time, energy and stamina to look beyond the horizon and see a brave new world. Or the shit-heap which is ours.
That's why it's so important to teach children to think for themselves and to make up their own minds. They have to learn that borders aren't there to keep them in, but to challenge them to step over them. To teach them that they don't have to be scared. To give them a secure basis to experiment in.
Fear only leads to stagnation.
What was this thread about, actually?
Oh yes. Disillusionment. Yes. I'm disillusioned beyond belief. And I'm not female.
27 Apr 04
Originally posted by VargYou have to make a relative judgement, of the lesser of two evils if need be, otherwise there is no incentive for the politicians to get any better. If you set impossibly high standards for politicians, then you're never going to vote, so politicians will ignore you. It is precisely because of this that politicians are arguably so bad in the first place - they pander to the few people who a) are prepared to vote and b) are going to consider their options in voting, rather than just always voting for 'their' party.
You say vote for the ones who deserve it most. At the moment I don't see any of the parties who deserve it at all.
27 Apr 04
Originally posted by shavixmirIf what you say is true, Labour could easily have come to power and stayed there by espousing more popular policies, some of which they had until the early 90s. Why do you think they changed their minds?
I think one of the largest reasons people are not really interested in politics is because it seems that it doesn't matter who you vote for, they always end up doing the same anyway.
Look at new labour for instance. Privatising the subways, pushing through back-door privatisation of elements of the health system, tuition fees...all the same old polici ...[text shortened]... actually?
Oh yes. Disillusionment. Yes. I'm disillusioned beyond belief. And I'm not female.
Politics is a game of compromise: if the government did exactly what any one person wanted, large sections of the population would feel aggrieved. In addition they have their own ideas about what's good for the country - otherwise we'd just have rule by referendum.
I happen to agree with you about the folly of PPP - it's just a huge waste of money, and the government's reason for doing it is to hoodwink us about how much they're spending - it's like borrowing money from a loan shark so that it doesn't show up on your bank statements. But with most of the government's policies, there are decent arguments in favour of them, even if you don't agree with them. We are all sometimes guilty of labelling an idea 'evil' and hence immune to rational argument, when it's really just misguided (in which case you should be able to understand why they think it's a good idea), poorly executed, or even just misunderstood.
"That's why it's so important to teach children to think for themselves and to make up their own minds. They have to learn that borders aren't there to keep them in, but to challenge them to step over them. To teach them that they don't have to be scared. To give them a secure basis to experiment in.
Fear only leads to stagnation."
I couldn't agree more with this.