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  1. Joined
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    11 Apr '19 05:59
    Polynesians were good at traveling over the ocean for long distances. Some people think they came to South America before Europeans did. How credible is that theory?

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04488-4

    https://www.thoughtco.com/bottle-gourd-domestication-history-170268

    https://www.nature.com/articles/447620b

    https://phys.org/news/2013-08-unscrambling-genetics-chicken-blue-egg.html
  2. Joined
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    11 Apr '19 07:22
    @metal-brain said
    Polynesians were good at traveling over the ocean for long distances. Some people think they came to South America before Europeans did. How credible is that theory?
    Not at all, any more. That riddle has been solved, first linguistically, now genetically as well. The Polynesians are of mostly SE-Asian, partly Melanesian descent. The Kon-Tiki theory was a tempting idea, but one which has been thoroughly disproven.
  3. SubscriberWajoma
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    11 Apr '19 11:31
    @metal-brain said
    Polynesians were good at traveling over the ocean for long distances. Some people think they came to South America before Europeans did. How credible is that theory?

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04488-4

    https://www.thoughtco.com/bottle-gourd-domestication-history-170268

    https://www.nature.com/articles/447620b

    https://phys.org/news/2013-08-unscrambling-genetics-chicken-blue-egg.html
    This belittles the story of navigation, the lives lost, the lives dedicated to finding a solution, the first chronometers, the skill to use a sextant accurately, the knowledge of astronomy required, pages of calculations.

    And these blokes jumped in a canoe and bypassed it all.
  4. Joined
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    11 Apr '19 11:31
    @shallow-blue said
    Not at all, any more. That riddle has been solved, first linguistically, now genetically as well. The Polynesians are of mostly SE-Asian, partly Melanesian descent. The Kon-Tiki theory was a tempting idea, but one which has been thoroughly disproven.
    I never suggested Polynesians are from South America. Read the links.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Apr '19 14:111 edit
    @wajoma said
    This belittles the story of navigation, the lives lost, the lives dedicated to finding a solution, the first chronometers, the skill to use a sextant accurately, the knowledge of astronomy required, pages of calculations.

    And these blokes jumped in a canoe and bypassed it all.
    The Polynesians got to remote Easter Island without sextants, chronometers, etc. And they did so hundreds of years before Europeans "discovered America".
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Apr '19 15:14
    @wajoma said
    This belittles the story of navigation, the lives lost, the lives dedicated to finding a solution, the first chronometers, the skill to use a sextant accurately, the knowledge of astronomy required, pages of calculations.

    And these blokes jumped in a canoe and bypassed it all.
    BTW Colombus used dead reckoning which was no more sophisticated than the methods the "blokes jumping in canoes" used.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Apr '19 18:11
    They found Hawaii, Samoa etc why not South America?
  8. Joined
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    12 Apr '19 05:21
    @athousandyoung said
    They found Hawaii, Samoa etc why not South America?
    I could imagine people from Easter Island leaving the resource limited island and finding South America. Not sure how likely they could get back to another island from there, but if they did why not take sweet potatoes to take back to the seas? It seems possible.
  9. SubscriberWajoma
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    12 Apr '19 05:541 edit
    @no1marauder said
    The Polynesians got to remote Easter Island without sextants, chronometers, etc. And they did so hundreds of years before Europeans "discovered America".
    How romantic you are,

    They got lucky No1, brush up on what it is to know where you are in the middle of the ocean with nothing in sight but the stars. You think they looked up at the stars, the night sky is constantly changing, the orientation of stars to where you are on earth, the europeans had books full of tables and even then what was required was an accurate time piece, that is what changed navigation.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Apr '19 06:001 edit
    @wajoma said
    How romantic you are,

    They got lucky No1, brush up on what it is to know where you are in the middle of the ocean with nothing in sight but the stars. You think they looked up at the stars, the night sky is constantly changing, the orientation of stars to where you are on earth, the europeans had books full of tables and even then what was required was an accurate time piece, that is what changed navigation.
    The "Euros were so smart and everybody else was dumb" doesn't really fit into historical reality, Wajoma.

    The Polynesians made voyages that Euros never accomplished until centuries later. Maybe if you read a history book rather than Ayn Rand you'd realize this. Or maybe you could check out Wiki:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    @no1marauder said
    The "Euros were so smart and everybody else was dumb" does really fit into historical reality, Wajoma.

    The Polynesians made voyages that Euros never accomplished until centuries later. Maybe if you read a history book rather than Ayn Rand you'd realize this.
    That was never my angle you ijit. The history of navigation is a good one, take it or leave it, many people (I'm reluctant to say cultures, because it is a story of individuals from various cultures) contributed to it, there were people that devoted their whole life to it. You would learn about the tools developed and the knowledge required to use those tools. Absolute bare minimum tools, and in the absence of those tools you (or anyone) would be utterly lost. You're beginning to sound like D64.

    Just so we know where you are. Do you think these fellows simply looked at the sky (when it happened to be clear) because when you're over the horizon there is nothing else, and they knew where they were and where they were going.

    Even the most accurate compass devised could see you sail straight past land masses by 5 miles or 100 miles.

    Edit: BTW that's not a book, that's a copy and paste wiki link, maybe you should try a book instead of the standard kaka notion action, google wiki, CTRL C, CTRL P

    Edit 2: Haha I just checked your non-book wiki link, they sang their way there, haha. with a sextant made out of sticks and shells. My opinion of wiki just took another dive, but you should suck it up, maybe make a song about it.

    Edit 8: It just gets better, they looked at the waves haha
  12. Joined
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    12 Apr '19 06:471 edit
    @no1marauder said
    The "Euros were so smart and everybody else was dumb" doesn't really fit into historical reality, Wajoma.
    Neither does "The Euros" (what a nicely belittling term, by the way - quite on a oar with whodey's favourite "Dims" ) "were so barbarically primitive and everybody else was so much more advanced and civilised".
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    12 Apr '19 07:52
    @wajoma said
    How romantic you are,

    They got lucky No1, brush up on what it is to know where you are in the middle of the ocean with nothing in sight but the stars. You think they looked up at the stars, the night sky is constantly changing, the orientation of stars to where you are on earth, the europeans had books full of tables and even then what was required was an accurate time piece, that is what changed navigation.
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/polynesia-genius-navigators/
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    12 Apr '19 16:06
    @metal-brain said
    I could imagine people from Easter Island leaving the resource limited island and finding South America. Not sure how likely they could get back to another island from there, but if they did why not take sweet potatoes to take back to the seas? It seems possible.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Salas_y_Gómez
  15. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    12 Apr '19 16:16
    @shallow-blue said
    Neither does "The Euros" (what a nicely belittling term, by the way - quite on a oar with whodey's favourite "Dims" ) "were so barbarically primitive and everybody else was so much more advanced and civilised".
    Nobody is suggesting that the Polynesians were masterful horsemen who proved the Earth is a sphere and developed advanced painting techniques. They were simply good at the skills their environment required.
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