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Debates Forum

  1. 12 Jul '09 14:32
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/07/08/g8-summit-pope/

    Here is an article in which Pope Benedict blasts capitalism by trying to reveal its ills. This article is for all you rabid athiest socialist loving kids out there. So should there still be a seperation of church and state now that it appears he is on your side economically?
  2. 12 Jul '09 14:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/07/08/g8-summit-pope/

    Here is an article in which Pope Benedict blasts capitalism by trying to reveal its ills. This article is for all you rabid athiest socialist loving kids out there. So should there still be a seperation of church and state now that it appears he is on your side economically?
    I'm not quite sure who you're addressing, but I'm willing to bet they are only Socialists as defined by the Limbaugh Dictionary.
  3. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    12 Jul '09 14:53
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/07/08/g8-summit-pope/

    Here is an article in which Pope Benedict blasts capitalism by trying to reveal its ills. This article is for all you rabid athiest socialist loving kids out there. So should there still be a seperation of church and state now that it appears he is on your side economically?
    If a strict separation of church and state is maintained, it doesn't mean that the Pope can't give his opinion.
  4. 12 Jul '09 14:56
    I'd love to see arguments for why NOT to seperate church and state.
  5. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    12 Jul '09 14:58
    Oh well, the vatican is a state and the pope is a statesman.

    What the guy says is just as if Sarkozy, Chávez, Gordon Brown, or any other would say it.

    That is... it is meaningless beyond the mere political sphere and depending on the interest group analyzing/using the statement.
  6. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    12 Jul '09 14:59
    As for church and state being separated, it is quite a "doh" issue.

    Because the vatican is a state, not separating the church from the state is like having a state within a state, i.e. a formula for chaos.
  7. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    12 Jul '09 15:44
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    I'd love to see arguments for why NOT to seperate church and state.
    Because monotheistic theocracies get things done, you get to know who the bad guys are, and life becomes an uncomplicated pastime once more. Free'd of the angst of having to fret over existential conundrums like who we are or why we are here, we will be enabled to concentrate on the more important things in life, like whose round it is!
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Jul '09 16:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/07/08/g8-summit-pope/

    Here is an article in which Pope Benedict blasts capitalism by trying to reveal its ills. This article is for all you rabid athiest socialist loving kids out there. So should there still be a seperation of church and state now that it appears he is on your side economically?
    The Pope is entitled to his opinion. And, of course, people are free to give whatever weight they choose to his opinion.

    But, I don't see what training the Pope has that would cause anyone who is not Catholic to give much credence to his opinions regarding economic philosophies.
  9. 12 Jul '09 18:52 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    The Pope is entitled to his opinion. And, of course, people are free to give whatever weight they choose to his opinion.

    But, I don't see what training the Pope has that would cause anyone who is not Catholic to give much credence to his opinions regarding economic philosophies.
    My only point here is, have you ever seen threads bashing the Pope and Catholic church for teaching against birth control? The attacks are spectacular as they accuse the Vatican of causing untold deaths, particularly in the third world. But just as you say, if they are not Catholic, who cares? In fact, I would think if you were going to listen to the Pope about not using birth control, you would also listen to him about having monogamous relaitonships within a marriage. But the implication is, a vast majority listen to the Vatican about such things and it is costing lives due to AIDS etc.

    So how about the Vatican now endorsing socialism? Is the Vatican trying to sway popular opinion towards socialism or are they simplyi responding to the apparent majority of Catholics who seem to have voted for Obama? In addition, should they be doing so? Of course the more ominous implications if you are Catholic is that the Pope is supposed to be the direct line to God. Therefore, anything he says is what God thinks. At least, that has been my observation from talking to them. So how about it Catholics? Is God a socialist?
  10. 12 Jul '09 19:20
    Originally posted by whodey
    My only point here is, have you ever seen threads bashing the Pope and Catholic church for teaching against birth control? The attacks are spectacular as they accuse the Vatican of causing untold deaths, particularly in the third world. But just as you say, if they are not Catholic, who cares? In fact, I would think if you were going to listen to the Pope ...[text shortened]... t has been my observation from talking to them. So how about it Catholics? Is God a socialist?
    I do think it's incredibly irresponsible to tell countries in Africa, where there is an unprecedented epidemic of AIDS cases, not to use condoms. But to his "credit" he was considering allowing married couples to use condoms if only one partner is infected. CONSIDERING!

    Bringing Socialism into this is a complete red herring. One issue has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
  11. 12 Jul '09 19:32
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    I do think it's incredibly irresponsible to tell countries in Africa, where there is an unprecedented epidemic of AIDS cases, not to use condoms. But to his "credit" he was considering allowing married couples to use condoms if only one partner is infected. CONSIDERING!

    Bringing Socialism into this is a complete red herring. One issue has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
    Your objection is that you see harm being done because of a lack of birth control but no harm being done embrassing socialism. However, if you viewed socialism as "harmful" you may have a different take.

    I like what C.S. Lewis had to say about socialism who was another Christian voice on politics. "Of all tyrannies, a tyrannny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under onmipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience".
  12. 12 Jul '09 19:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    Your objection is that you see harm being done because of a lack of birth control but no harm being done embrassing socialism. However, if you viewed socialism as "harmful" you may have a different take.

    I like what C.S. Lewis had to say about socialism who was another Christian voice on politics. "Of all tyrannies, a tyrannny sincerely exercised for the ...[text shortened]... good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience".
    What on Earth does that have to do with socialism?
  13. 12 Jul '09 19:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    Your objection is that you see harm being done because of a lack of birth control but no harm being done embrassing socialism. However, if you viewed socialism as "harmful" you may have a different take.

    I like what C.S. Lewis had to say about socialism who was another Christian voice on politics. "Of all tyrannies, a tyrannny sincerely exercised for the ...[text shortened]... good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience".
    Not for lack of birth control, specifically condoms. The pill does nothing to prevent the spread of STDs.

    That being said even dirt poor married couples not being allowed to use any form of birth control is in itself harmful as well, but that's another subject.

    I'm still failing to see how Socialism is even relevant to this topic though.
  14. 12 Jul '09 20:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    My only point here is, have you ever seen threads bashing the Pope and Catholic church for teaching against birth control? The attacks are spectacular as they accuse the Vatican of causing untold deaths, particularly in the third world. But just as you say, if they are not Catholic, who cares? In fact, I would think if you were going to listen to the Pope ...[text shortened]... t has been my observation from talking to them. So how about it Catholics? Is God a socialist?
    Do you really think that the Pope bases his statements on what American catholics may or may not think?
  15. 12 Jul '09 20:42
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    What on Earth does that have to do with socialism?
    Specifically it is about Statism of which socialism is an offshoot. What is being said is that the state becomes the one who has imposed a tyranny of sorts in the name of "helping us".