“The Church rejects the misguided view of human nature expressed in both totalitarian left-wing ideologies and unfettered free market capitalism. On the one hand, Leo XIII's encyclical condemned socialism, confirmed the rights of private property and supported trade unions.”
My source? About 100 links available on google.
If this is to be discussed, let’s at least agree that this is his position.
@AverageJoe1 saidWhat is this? A history lesson?
“The Church rejects the misguided view of human nature expressed in both totalitarian left-wing ideologies and unfettered free market capitalism. On the one hand, Leo XIII's encyclical condemned socialism, confirmed the rights of private property and supported trade unions.”
My source? About 100 links available on google.
If this is to be discussed, let’s at least agree that this is his position.
Leo XIII lived in the late 19th century. 😆
“As European society was grappling with the impact of the Industrial Revolution and the rise of socialist ideology in the late 1800s, Pope Leo XIII issued an encyclical that expressed empathy with the discontentment of laborers but outright condemnation of the socialist movements of the time.
The papal encyclical, called Rerum Novarum and published in May 1891, emphasizes a need for reforms to protect the dignity of the working class while maintaining a relationship with capital and the existence of private property.”
@Kewpie saidDid you where Spruce, in normal liberal form, totally avoids my comment about Leo XIV? He makes a comment about someone else.
I don't think our new Pope has had time to produce an encyclical yet. Google and its friends collect stuff, but it's chaotic, you need to have your capacity for thinking and reasoning engaged when you're looking through its collection.
Regarding dignity, Another google points out his position that ‘socialism harms human dignity’.
Oh well, one post is like another .
@AverageJoe1 saidYou are quoting Leo the Thirteenth. 😆
Did you where Spruce, in normal liberal form, totally avoids my comment about Leo XIV? He makes a comment about someone else.
Regarding dignity, Another google points out his position that ‘socialism harms human dignity’.
Oh well, one post is like another .
The current pope is Leo the Fourteenth.
@AverageJoe1 saidAll I found was this.
“The Church rejects the misguided view of human nature expressed in both totalitarian left-wing ideologies and unfettered free market capitalism. On the one hand, Leo XIII's encyclical condemned socialism, confirmed the rights of private property and supported trade unions.”
My source? About 100 links available on google.
If this is to be discussed, let’s at least agree that this is his position.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/03/11/against-the-catholic-grain-pope-francis-trumpets-socialism-over-capitalism/
Contrary to the propaganda you have accepted socialism does not normally confiscate private property. Communists do, not socialists. Capitalists do sometimes though. It is called imminent domain. If you refuse to sell they will take it from you anyway.
@Metal-Brain saidIn a socialist world, can a person be a millionaire when surrounded by people in the same society who make low wages? A serious question.
All I found was this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/03/11/against-the-catholic-grain-pope-francis-trumpets-socialism-over-capitalism/
Contrary to the propaganda you have accepted socialism does not normally confiscate private property. Communists do, not socialists. Capitalists do sometimes though. It is called imminent domain. If you refuse to sell they will take it from you anyway.
Sorry I mixed up the popes. There is a lot of info floating around, at least he likes capitalism. No one except dependents favor socialism, so I’m partially right.
2 edits
@MartinS saidYou misjudge the Church. They are rich because people keep donating stuff to them, not because they necessarily want what they get.
The Catholic church are some of the biggest hypocrites on Earth
They ponce around in all their gold-plated regalia and have some of the largest land holdings in the world - yet they say - pray with us and give us money for the poor.
ALL religion is a con job
There is no God, the there is no Devil
Everything is in our own consciousness; that is where the good and t ...[text shortened]... g young boys - little wonder choir boys have high-pitched voices when they have a dick up their arse
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/etimes/trending/why-the-pope-refused-to-drive-his-950000-lamborghini-what-he-did-instead-will-surprise-you/articleshow/120972853.cms
Notice what happens to the house
@AverageJoe1 said"In a socialist world, can a person be a millionaire when surrounded by people in the same society who make low wages?"
In a socialist world, can a person be a millionaire when surrounded by people in the same society who make low wages? A serious question.
Sorry I mixed up the popes. There is a lot of info floating around, at least he likes capitalism. No one except dependents favor socialism, so I’m partially right.
Yes.
@AverageJoe1 saidApparently, your comment was about Leo XIII.
Did you where Spruce, in normal liberal form, totally avoids my comment about Leo XIV? He makes a comment about someone else.
Regarding dignity, Another google points out his position that ‘socialism harms human dignity’.
Oh well, one post is like another .
Can you even read? Some of us wonder.
@AverageJoe1 saidYou're never right, especially whenever you talk about socialism.
In a socialist world, can a person be a millionaire when surrounded by people in the same society who make low wages? A serious question.
Sorry I mixed up the popes. There is a lot of info floating around, at least he likes capitalism. No one except dependents favor socialism, so I’m partially right.
@AverageJoe1 saidIs THIS what you are talking about?
“The Church rejects the misguided view of human nature expressed in both totalitarian left-wing ideologies and unfettered free market capitalism. On the one hand, Leo XIII's encyclical condemned socialism, confirmed the rights of private property and supported trade unions.”
My source? About 100 links available on google.
If this is to be discussed, let’s at least agree that this is his position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_novarum
Leo XIII wrote this 134 years ago this month.
I also think you are fully out of your depth on this one.
Let's not even talk about how valid this is today.
@Metal-Brain saidBut, but,,,,,,is this, then, a wrong article? I think you must be wrong. Yes, yours was the wrong answer. How about one of your word salads for entertainment.
"In a socialist world, can a person be a millionaire when surrounded by people in the same society who make low wages?"
Yes.
(Yes, it was a loaded question).
BTW, I HATE the part about reduced incentives. I just hate it., The USA with no incentive (Marauder's Dream!). I cannot imagine.
""""No, generally, millionaires are not considered compatible with socialism in its core definition. While socialism aims for a more equitable distribution of wealth and resources, and often includes concepts like nationalization of key industries and progressive taxation, the existence of large fortunes is generally seen as incompatible with those goals.
Here's why:
Conflict with core socialist principles:
.
Socialism, in its various forms, often emphasizes collective ownership or control of the means of production, aiming to reduce or eliminate private ownership and accumulation of wealth. The existence of large fortunes, particularly those accumulated through private property and free markets, directly contradicts these core principles.
Inequality and social stratification:
.
The concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, like millionaires, is a central concern for socialists, as it creates vast inequalities and social stratification, which are seen as detrimental to social justice and equality.
Influence and power:
.
The wealth of millionaires can give them significant influence in political and economic spheres, potentially allowing them to shape policies and regulations in ways that benefit their interests at the expense of broader societal well-being, as argued by Noam Chomsky.
Reduced incentives:
.
Some critics of socialism argue that a system where everyone receives equal wealth can disincentivize work and innovation, leading to a decline in productivity and economic growth, which may negatively impact everyone, including the wealthy.
Alternative views:
.
While some socialist thinkers acknowledge the potential for a role for private ownership in certain sectors, particularly in service or secondary economic sectors, as seen in market socialism, the core of socialist thought generally focuses on limiting the accumulation of private wealth and promoting more equitable distribution.