Originally posted by no1marauderI wonder if the Catholic church also absolved Nazi war criminals.
You're a constant pathetic liar with a pathological hatred of Jesus' Church.
Here's what this Pope has said:
Because God is first; God is always first and makes the first move,” he said. “I have a dogmatic certainty: God is in every person’s life. God is in everyone’s life. Even if the life of a person has been a disaster, even if it is destroyed b ...[text shortened]... t was meant to be.http://www.catholicvote.org/news-alert-pope-francis-follows-jesus-on-abortion/
It would make sense then if they did.
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Originally posted by whodeyIt would make sense IF they fulfilled the requirements of the Canon Law regarding the Sacrament of Penance:
I wonder if the Catholic church also absolved Nazi war criminals.
It would make sense then if they did.
Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3E.HTM
In RCC in order for one to suffer eternal punishment in Hell "a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end". Catechism, 1037. Yet God " does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM
Yes that would include even Nazi war criminals IF they truly repented for their grave sins.
Originally posted by no1marauderSo gays and abortionists who are not sorry for their sins will go to hell?
It would make sense IF they fulfilled the requirements of the Canon Law regarding the Sacrament of Penance:
Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins ...[text shortened]... he Church which they have wounded by sinning.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3E.HTM
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Originally posted by no1marauderWhat appalls me is the fact that the Pope met with the gay man and Davis. However, the Pope made it a point to say that he did not endorse the actions of Davis in any way. So what of the actions of the gay man he embraced? Does he endorse those actions?
That is for God to decide in RCC doctrine.
Just the mere fact that the Pope is playing favorites by trying to be PC is abhorrent. Jesus spent his life upsetting people by going against the grain of society by pointing out the truth within society, which is why he wound up on a cross. By all accounts, the Pope is polar opposite. He seems to relish being popular as if running for political office.
That is why I bring up the topic of hell. Nothing offends people more than telling them they are on their way to hell or that they are wrong, but not telling them the truth, or making the truth ambiguous, should not be the approach of the Pope either.
Originally posted by whodeyI'm sorry that you are so consumed with hatred for Jesus' Church that you can't see the difference between a private meeting with an old student who happens to be gay and the setting the record straight as regarding Kim Davis' false claims that the Pope endorsed her actions.
What appalls me is the fact that the Pope met with the gay man and Davis. However, the Pope made it a point to say that he did not endorse the actions of Davis in any way. So what of the actions of the gay man he embraced? Does he endorse those actions?
Just the mere fact that the Pope is playing favorites by trying to be PC is abhorrent. Jesus spent h ...[text shortened]... ng them the truth, or making the truth ambiguous, should not be the approach of the Pope either.
The Pope has no power to tell anyone that they are going to hell in RCC doctrine; that is a matter for God to decide.
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Originally posted by no1marauderA Roman Catholic teacher of mine once told me that the teaching of the church is that there is only one man in history we can be absolutely certain is in hell, and that is Judas Iscariot ( since the Gospel tells us, "better for that man if he had never been born" ). Likewise there is only one man we can be certain is in heaven, and that is the Good Thief; we have Christ's word for it!
That is for God to decide in RCC doctrine.
Originally posted by no1marauderAnd I'm so sorry you purposefully and continually distort what I attempt to say.
I'm sorry that you are so consumed with hatred for Jesus' Church that you can't see the difference between a private meeting with an old student who happens to be gay and the setting the record straight as regarding Kim Davis' false claims that the Pope endorsed her actions.
The Pope has no power to tell anyone that they are going to hell in RCC doctrine; that is a matter for God to decide.
I don't hate the Church and the Pope anymore than Jesus hated the religious leaders of his day whom he railed against.
Perhaps the Pope should lead by the example of Jesus.
Originally posted by whodeyHe is by stressing love and mercy. You insist on stressing hate and spite in contradiction of Jesus' message.
And I'm so sorry you purposefully and continually distort what I attempt to say.
I don't hate the Church and the Pope anymore than Jesus hated the religious leaders of his day whom he railed against.
Perhaps the Pope should lead by the example of Jesus.
Originally posted by no1marauderHate and spite?
He is by stressing love and mercy. You insist on stressing hate and spite in contradiction of Jesus' message.
Is it hate and spite to speak about against abortion and the selling of body parts of unborn infants? Is it hate and spite to not ignore pedophiles within the church? Is it hate and spite to note that the Pope is politically motivated by his actions rather than spiritually motivated by God?
If so, then I'm hateful and spiteful.
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Originally posted by whodeyYou continually lie on this forum. Knowingly and maliciously.
Hate and spite?
Is it hate and spite to speak about against abortion and the selling of body parts of unborn infants? Is it hate and spite to not ignore pedophiles within the church? Is it hate and spite to note that the Pope is politically motivated by his actions rather than spiritually motivated by God?
If so, then I'm hateful and spiteful.
There were no body parts of unborn infants sold; this has been pointed out to you over and over.
Pedophiles were not ignored by this Pope. This has been pointed out to you over and over.
Your claiming that you know that this Pope's motivations are "political" rather than "spiritual" is arrogant and demented. His message is in full agreement with the Gospels and yours is nothing but petty hate speech.
Yes, you are a hateful and spiteful liar. Your Holy Book says you need to repent for these sins and swear to stop committing them. Hopefully you will do so.
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Originally posted by no1marauderMatthew 23New International Version (NIV)
You continually lie on this forum. Knowingly and maliciously.
There were no body parts of unborn infants sold; this has been pointed out to you over and over.
Pedophiles were not ignored by this Pope. This has been pointed out to you over and over.
Your claiming that you know that this Pope's motivations are "political" rather than "spiritual" ...[text shortened]... s you need to repent for these sins and swear to stop committing them. Hopefully you will do so.
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”
Does this sound loving? Does this assume the motivations of the religious leaders?
It is what it is. The Pope does things to be seen more so than doing them to shed light in darkness so that he is persecuted for it.
The Pope is so PC, I can't imagine him saying any of this to the religious leaders.
And yes, Jesus would go off on the pedophile priests.
Matthew 18:4 "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
A slap on the wrist just won't do.
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Originally posted by no1marauderhttp://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/undercover-activists-record-video-of-planned-parenthood-official-that-could-prove-fetal-organs-being-sold
[b]You continually lie on this forum. Knowingly and maliciously.
There were no body parts of unborn infants sold; this has been pointed out to you over and over.
An anti-abortion group on Tuesday released an undercover video of an official at Planned Parenthood discussing in graphic detail how to abort a fetus to preserve its organs for medical research — as well as the costs associated with sharing that tissue with scientists.
Over lunch at a Los Angeles restaurant, two anti-abortion activists posing as employees from a biotech firm met with Deborah Nucatola, Planned Parenthood’s senior director of medical research. Armed with cameras, the activists recorded Nucatola talking about Planned Parenthood’s work donating fetal tissue to researchers and pressed her on whether the clinics were charging for the organs.
The Center for Medical Progress, which recorded and edited the video, says the footage proves that Planned Parenthood is breaking the law by selling fetal organs. But the video does not show Nucatola explicitly talking about selling organs. The Planned Parenthood official says the organization is “very, very sensitive” about being perceived as illegally profiting from organ sales and charges only for the cost, for instance, of shipping the tissue.
You know, I would throw a number out, I would say it’s probably anywhere from $30 to $100, depending on the facility and what’s involved
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The video threatens to reignite a long-standing debate over the use of fetal tissue harvested through abortions and could add fuel to efforts seeking to ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy.
In a statement, a spokesman for Planned Parenthood said the video misrepresents the organization’s work. Planned Parenthood clinics, with a patient’s permission, may sometimes donate fetal tissue for use in stem cell research, said the spokesman, who added that the group’s affiliates, which operate independently, do not profit from these donations.
“At several of our health centres, we help patients who want to donate tissue for scientific research, and we do this just like every other high-quality health-care provider does — with full, appropriate consent from patients and under the highest ethical and legal standards,” spokesman Eric Ferrero said. “In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.”
He accused the Center for Medical Progress of mounting a misleading attack similar to those by other groups that have tried to mount undercover “stings” targeting Planned Parenthood.
But anti-abortion groups said the video shows that Planned Parenthood is essentially selling fetal organs and that Congress and other authorities should investigate.
Buying and selling human fetal tissue is illegal in the United States. Federal regulations also prohibit anyone from altering the timing or method of an abortion for the sole purpose of later using the tissue in research. Donating the tissue for research, however, is legal with a woman’s consent.
We’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m gonna basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact
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Anti-abortion groups also said the callous nature of the discussion captured on film should tug at viewers’ consciences — particularly when Nucatola apparently describes “crushing” the fetus in ways that keep its internal organs intact and her remarks about researchers’ desire for lungs and livers.
“I’d say a lot of people want liver,” she says in the video posted on the Center for Medical Progress’s Web site, between bites of salad. “And for that reason, most providers will do this case under ultrasound guidance so they’ll know where they’re putting their forceps.”
She continues: “We’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m gonna basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.”
It’s hard to assess exactly what happened at the lunch with Nucatola. The anti-abortion group had complete control over the filming and editing of the footage. The group also posted a nearly three-hour version of the video that it’s calling the “full footage,” though there is no way to verify that the video is truly complete.
The unidentified activists, a man and a woman, told Nucatola they worked for a biotech firm that aimed to snare “a competitive advantage” by providing local samples for researchers who would like to avoid lengthy trips between clinic and lab. They said they worked in Norwalk, a suburb.
“Every provider has patients who want to donate their tissue, and they want to accommodate them,” says Nucatola. “They just want to do it in a way that is not perceived as: This clinic is selling tissue. This clinic is making money off this. In the Planned Parenthood world, they’re very, very sensitive to that. Some affiliates might do it for free. They want to come to a number that looks like a reasonable number for the effort that is allotted on their part . . . ”
One activist asks, “Okay, so, when you are — or when the affiliate is — determining what that monetary . . . So that it doesn’t raise the question of . . . ‘This is what it’s about’ — What price range would you . . . ?”
“You know, I would throw a number out, I would say it’s probably anywhere from $30 to $100, depending on the facility and what’s involved,” says Nucatola. “It just has to do with space issues, are you sending someone there that’s going to be doing everything . . . is there shipping involved? Is someone going to be there to pick it up?”
In order to film the footage, the activists wore “police-quality undercover cameras,” said David Daleiden, who ran the project for the Center of Medical Progress. (He refused to elaborate: “I don’t answer questions about our undercover costumes.&rdquo😉
The “sting” unfolded over three years, Daleiden said, because it takes time to build up a front as a biotech company and gain access to Planned Parenthood executives. The lunch, he said, is just the beginning: The Center for Medical Progress plans to release a new video every week for the next few months.
Daleiden rejects Nucatola’s claim that costs associated with fetal tissue donation involve shipping and staff hours. “Literally the only thing the clinic is doing is carrying the fetus from the operation to the tech,” he said.
The Center for Medical Progress was established by Daleiden, a controversial anti-abortion activist who previously worked with Live Action, another anti-abortion group known for its “stings” of Planned Parenthood using actors and undercover videos.
The group is a non-profit organization that describes itself on its Web site as “a group of citizen journalists dedicated to monitoring and reporting on medical ethics and advances.”
“The promotional video mischaracterizing Planned Parenthood’s mission and services is made by a long time anti-abortion activist that has used deceptive and unethical video editing, and that has created a fake medical website as well as a fake human tissue website that purports to provide services to stem cell researchers,” Planned Parenthood said in a statement Tuesday.
Daleiden also alleges that the procedure described by Nucatola is similar to “intact dilation and extraction,” referred to by opponents as partial-birth abortion, which Congress outlawed in 2003. The Supreme Court upheld the law’s constitutionality four years later.
In the 1980s and 1990s, researchers considered fetal tissue transplants a budding treatment for Parkinson’s disease and diabetes. Some believed they held the potential to prevent autism.
As different kind of stem cells — embryonic stem cells — gain prominence in research, fetal tissue donations today are often used to gain deeper anatomical understanding of fetuses, said Arthur Caplan, director of New York University’s Division of Medical Ethics. The practice, however, is problematic if an abortion provider goes into a procedure with the primary intention of preserving a liver, he said. In the video, Nucatola appears to allude to methods for carefully extracting the organs.
“I think the only relevant goal of an abortion clinic is to provide a safe and least risky abortion to a woman,” Caplan said. “If you’re starting to play with how it’s done, and when it’s done, other things than women’s health are coming into play. You’re making a huge mountain of conflict of interest around a period for many people is morally difficult.”
A number of Republicans, including a few presidential candidates, reacted Tuesday to the video.
Originally posted by whodeyYou can say that these videos are edited all you want, but the films in there entirety are available.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/undercover-activists-record-video-of-planned-parenthood-official-that-could-prove-fetal-organs-being-sold
An anti-abortion group on Tuesday released an undercover video of an official at Planned Parenthood discussing in graphic detail how to abort a fetus to preserve its organs for medical research — as well as the c ...[text shortened]...
A number of Republicans, including a few presidential candidates, reacted Tuesday to the video.
Usually when asked about the videos, those in the press and those in government instantly say that they have not seen the videos, as if to try to diminish their importance while supposedly talking intelligently about them at the same time.