Positive ideas to solutions on how we can live ...

Originally posted by malina
I had this feeling which I would like to express here because I suddenly realized that this forum is very interesting and very rich in ideas, but somehow, it tends to be like in the chess board, that is, a constant battle of ideas and opinions leading to more conflicts than anything else such as simple ideas on how us, world citizens, could live together in p ...[text shortened]... I am not at all experienced on this and I accept any criticism and contribution to my thoughts.

Its my opinion that this forum is a pretty accurate reflection of the people and forces in the world today. The largest number of people who come to this site probably have not even visitied this forum, they prefer to play their chess games and pay no attention to the debate here. Same way in life, they prefer to live and have no interest in the events of the world around them. Most likely because they feel they can't influence them.

Then we have the activists on both sides, left and right , who drive the discussion here. You'll notice that its the same group of 30, maybe forty people who post here. Its the same way in the world. Perhaps we are the ones who though we may tire now and then, never give up hoping our points of view will become those of the majority .

For me, I post here not in the misguided belief that I'll change anyone whose views are diametrically opposed to mine. I post when I see something thats offends my principals or beliefs. Having been a conservative thinker since I was 15 ... nearly 4 decades ago, my pricipals and beliefs are simple .... exercise common sense in every situation, be self reliant as much as possible, and exercise personal responsibility at all times. Further, I abhor the idea that many in society have that they are owed something, whether it be by the world, one's government or fellow citizens of one's country. I believe in helping the needy and less fortunate with a hand up, but not a never ending series of handouts.

Finally, I'm a nationalist ..for better or for worse. I believe the United States should work with and co-operate with other nations. But when it comes down to the bottom line, my country and my country men come first.

Now, there are those who will say I'm a stupid Southern red neck, and that may be. But I haven't compromised my principles in the last 56 years and I'm not about to start.

So what world problems you want to discuss?

Originally posted by SMSBear716
Its my opinion that this forum is a pretty accurate reflection of the people and forces in the world today. The largest number of people who come to this site probably have not even visitied this forum, they prefer to play their chess games and pay no attention to the debate here. Same way in life, they prefer to live and have no interest in the events o ...[text shortened]... ast 56 years and I'm not about to start.

So what world problems you want to discuss?

I completely agree with this: For me, I post here not in the misguided belief that I'll change anyone whose views are diametrically opposed to mine.

I dare say that the familiar names here in the Debates Forum have not budged one inch with respect to their beliefs - no matter how well reasoned and vociferous opposing points of view may seem.

Oh well, we keep coming back. 🙂

Originally posted by treetalk
I completely agree with this: For me, I post here not in the misguided belief that I'll change anyone whose views are diametrically opposed to mine.

I dare say that the familiar names here in the Debates Forum have not budged one inch with respect to their beliefs - no matter how well reasoned and vociferous opposing points of view may seem.

Oh well, we keep coming back. 🙂

I've refined my beliefs. For example, I had long been convinced that the right wingers were the only ones to pursue the War on Drugs. Then I was informed about the Gores...

I've also been made to think about how hard it is to define terrorism such that American military are not terrorists and never have been.

Originally posted by malina
I had this feeling which I would like to express here because I suddenly realized that this forum is very interesting and very rich in ideas, but somehow, it tends to be like in the chess board, that is, a constant battle of ideas and opinions leading to more conflicts than anything else such as simple ideas on how us, world citizens, could live together in p ...[text shortened]... I am not at all experienced on this and I accept any criticism and contribution to my thoughts.

I was going to address SMSBear716's neoconservative propaganda but given the
positive nature of this thread I won't.

If you want to know how we could live together harmonically, read 'war of the worlds'.
Ironically if the whole world were under attack you would see nations working together
in ways you wouldn't have imagined possible. You would see the breakdown of countries
and borders. The suspension of religions and differences. The conservation of land and
food and material resources. You would for a brief time see a world in harmony.

'Global warming' was supposed to do just that but it has and will continue
to decline into a money spinner.
The real solutions lie in global Adoption, Adaptation and Admonition
using forces like the Internet to enforce global communities and bring
education to the far reaches of the globe. To control population growth
by offering more rewards for fostering and limiting family size.
To bring about responsible advertising where consumerism is expelled
in favour of ecominded business that are in turn better funded.
Most importantly I'm a globalist...for better or for worse...I believe that
until we have broken down our land borders worldwide, there is no end
in site to the discrimination, discrepancies and despair

Originally posted by SMSBear716
Its my opinion that this forum is a pretty accurate reflection of the people and forces in the world today. The largest number of people who come to this site probably have not even visitied this forum, they prefer to play their chess games and pay no attention to the debate here. Same way in life, they prefer to live and have no interest in the events o ...[text shortened]... ast 56 years and I'm not about to start.

So what world problems you want to discuss?

Thanks for sharing your sincerely held beliefs. I can't find much in your post that I explicitly disagree with the literal meaning of, but in practice it comes down to where you draw the line. For example, it's one thing to put one's own country first when it comes to an imminent threat to civilian lives in one's own country, but quite another to invade an oil-rich country for no better reason than economic gain for (some parties within) one's own country. No country can reasonably be expected to use its military to prevent every civil war or breach of the peace in any country around the world; we need an international defence force for that sort of thing.

As for this idea that people shouldn't feel that they're owed something, I hope Bush remembers that with respect to the Middle-East's oil, and the planet doesn't owe it to any country's businesses to be subjected to further environmental damage.

Originally posted by malina
I had this feeling which I would like to express here because I suddenly realized that this forum is very interesting and very rich in ideas, but somehow, it tends to be like in the chess board, that is, a constant battle of ideas and opinions leading to more conflicts than anything else such as simple ideas on how us, world citizens, could live together in p ...[text shortened]... I am not at all experienced on this and I accept any criticism and contribution to my thoughts.

I don't think we need to be Buddhist monks who religiously avoid any kind of conflict in how we debate, but I do think posts should be generally civil and focus on the issues rather than slinging endless ad hominem attacks and other such diatribes. For the most part, I'm impressed by the intellectual quality and degree of civility in this forum. Chess players are likely better able to form reasoned arguments, which tends to lessen the desire to sling ad homs in place of a reasoned argument.

As for how to bring peace and harmony to the world, that's a complex and multi-faceted question and I don't have a simple answer. I do think there's hope that communication technology will contribute to greater understandings between different people, and that democracy and civil rights within a country tend to reduce the risk of that country acting aggressively towards others. (For example, the Nazi holocaust against Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals was occurring at the same time as Nazi Germany was acting in a hostile manner towards other countries. Likewise, most countries that support terrorism are also plagued with human rights abuses.)

There are some political issues which significant numbers of educated, law-abiding citizens so far continue to have differing views on. This speaks to the complexity of the issues involved. Historically, sex, politics and religion have been viewed as topics that you don't often discuss, and I think it's good to see that changing. At the end of the day, the people need to take responsibility for debating these issues rather than relying on politicians to decide them for us.

Addendum: I can think of a number of posters in this forum whose views I don't often agree with, but at least I can be pretty sure that none of them are being bribed by corporate lobbyists to wilfully distort ideas in a way that promotes corporate interests. That's not something that we can consistently say about our elected officials. Democracy is all about the public debating the issues and then taking them to politicians in return for our votes.

Originally posted by malina
.... simple ideas on how us, world citizens, could live together in peace and harmony.

I strive to achieve a clear awareness of exactly what is happening as it happens. It means telling the truth to yourself, facing reality as it is, not as we'd prefer it to be. It means you don't believe everything you think -- you don't mistake thoughts or mere beliefs for reality. You don't say "no" to reality, you say "yes" to reality, even if it is supremely unpleasant, painful, downright intolerable. Your loved one is dead; he is not coming back; you will not see him again in this or any other world. Accept that fact -- there is no getting over it -- but you cannot live on by denying it or hiding it under some irrational belief in the supernatural.

There I am, and I suddenly realize that I am spending my whole life just barely getting by. I keep up a good front. I manage to make ends meed somehow and look OK from the outside. But those periods of desperation, overpowering grief, those times when I feel everything caving in on me, I keep those to myself. I am a mess. And I know it. But I hide it beautifully. Meanwhile, way down under all that I just know there has got be some other way to live, some better way to look at the world, some way to touch life more fully. I click into it by chance now and then. I get a good job. I fall in love. I win the game and for a while, things are different. Life takes on a richness and clarity that makes all the bad times and humdrum fade away. The whole texture of my experience changes and I say to myself, "OK, now I've made it; now I will be happy". But then that fades, too, like smoke in the wind. I am left with just a memory. That and a vague awareness that something is wrong.

But there is really another whole realm of depth and sensitivity available in life, somehow, I am just not seeing it. I wind up feeling cut off. I feel insulated from the sweetness of experience by some sort of sensory cotton. I am not really touching life. I am not making it again. And then even that vague awareness fades away, and I am back to the same old reality. The world looks like the usual foul place, which is boring at best. It is an emotional roller coaster, and I spend a lot of time down at the bottom of the ramp, yearning for the heights.

So what is wrong ? I am just human. And I suffer from the same malady that infects every human being. It is a monster inside all of us, and it has many arms: Chronic tension, lack of genuine compassion for others, including the people closest to one, feelings being blocked up, and emotional deadness. Many, many arms. None of us is entirely free from it. We may deny it. We try to suppress it. We build a whole culture around hiding from it, pretending it is not there, and distracting ourselves from it with goals and projects and status. But it never goes away. It is a constant undercurrent in every thought and every perception; a little wordless voice at the back of the head saying, "Not good enough yet. Got to have more. Got to make it better. Got to be better." Or we have to blame someone else, pin it on some group, find a scapegoat. It is a monster, a monster that manifests everywhere in subtle forms.

Go to a party. Listen to the laughter, that brittle-tongued voice that says fun on the surface and fear underneath. Feel the tension, feel the pressure. Nobody really relaxes. They are faking it. Go to a ball game. Watch the fan in the stand. Watch the irrational fit of anger. Watch the uncontrolled frustration bubbling forth from people that masquerades under the guise of enthusiasm, or team spirit. Booing, cat-calls and unbridled egotism in the name of team loyalty. Drunkenness, fights in the stands. These are the people trying desperately to release tension from within. These are not people who are at peace with themselves. Watch the news on TV. Go to a political rally, Listen to the pundits, read the columnists. Listen to the lyrics in popular songs. I find the same theme repeated over and over in variations. Jealousy, suffering, discontent and stress.

Life seems to be a perpetual struggle, some enormous effort against staggering odds. And what is our solution to all this dissatisfaction? We get stuck in the ' If only' syndrome. If only there was honesty or honor. If not that, then maybe I could escape if only I had more money, then I would be happy. If only I can find somebody who really loves me, if only I can lose 20 pounds, if only I had an HD TV, Jacuzzi, and curly hair, if only there were honest leaders, social justice, peace and security, freedom and empowerment for all, and on and on forever. So where does all this junk come from and more important, what can we do about it? It comes from the conditions of our own minds. It is deep, subtle and pervasive set of mental habits, a Gordian knot which we have built up bit by bit and we can unravel just the same way, one piece at a time. We can tune up our awareness, dredge up each separate piece and bring it out into the light. We can make the unconscious conscious, slowly, one piece at a time.

There is not a thing wrong with this. It is the nature of the universe. That is why I say "so what?" That is why I say "tell me something I don't already know."

But human culture has taught us some odd responses to this endless flowing and incessant change in life. We categorize experiences. We try to stick each perception, every mental change in this endless flow into one of three mental pigeon holes. It is good, or it is bad, or it is neutral. Then, according to which box we stick it in, we perceive with a set of fixed habitual mental responses. If a particular perception has been labeled 'good', then we try to freeze time right there. We grab onto that particular thought, we fondle it, we hold it, we try to keep it from escaping. When that does not work, we go all-out in an effort to repeat the experience which caused that thought. Let us call this mental habit 'grasping'.

Over on the other side of the mind lies the box labeled 'bad'. When we perceive something 'bad', we try to push it away. We try to deny it, reject it, get rid of it any way we can. We fight against our own experience. We run from pieces of ourselves. Let us call this mental habit 'rejecting'. Between these two reactions lies the neutral box. Here we place the experiences which are neither good nor bad. They are tepid, neutral, uninteresting and boring. We pack experience away in the neutral box so that we can ignore it and thus return our attention to where the action is, namely our endless round of desire and aversion. This category of experience gets robbed of its fair share of our attention. Let us call this mental habit 'ignoring'. The direct result of all this lunacy is a perpetual treadmill race to nowhere, endlessly pounding after pleasure, endlessly fleeing from pain, endlessly ignoring 90 percent of our experience. Then we wonder why life tastes so flat. In the final analysis, it's a system that does not work.

No matter how hard you pursue pleasure and success, or righteousness and justice, there are times when you fail. No matter how fast you flee, there are times when pain catches up with you. And in between those times, life is so boring you could scream. Our minds are full of opinions and criticisms. We have built walls all around ourselves and we are trapped within the prison of our own likes and dislikes. We suffer.

Sounds pretty bleak, doesn't it? Luckily it's not; not at all. It only sounds bleak when you view it from the level of ordinary mental perspective, the very level at which the treadmill mechanism operates.

Down under that level lies another whole perspective, a completely different way to look at the universe. It is a level of functioning where the mind does not try to freeze time, where we do not grasp onto our experience as it flows by, where we do not try to block things out and ignore them. It is a level of experience beyond good and bad, beyond pleasure and pain. It is a lovely way to perceive the world, and it is a learnable skill. It is not easy, but is learnable.

Happiness and peace. Those are really the prime issues in human existence. That is what all of us are seeking. This often is a bit hard to see because we cover up those basic goals with layers of surface objectives. We want food, we want money, we want sex, possessions and respect. We even say to ourselves that the idea of 'happiness' is too abstract: "Look, I am practical. Just give me enough money and I will buy all the happiness I need". Unfortunately, this is an attitude that does not work. Examine each of these goals and you will find they are superficial. You want food. Why? Because I am hungry. So you are hungry, so what? Well if I eat, I won't be hungry and then I'll feel good. Ah ha! Feel good! Now there is a real item. What we really seek is not the surface goals. They are just means to an end. What we are really after is the feeling of relief that comes when the drive is satisfied. Relief, relaxation and an end to the tension. Peace, happiness, no more yearning.

So what is this happiness? For most of us, the perfect happiness would mean getting everything we wanted, being in control of everything, playing Caesar, making the whole world dance a jig according to our every whim. Once again, it does not work that way. Take a look at the people in history who have actually held this ultimate power. These were not happy people. Most assuredly they were not men at peace with themselves. Why? Because they were driven to control the world totally and absolutely and they could not. They wanted to control all men and there remained men who refused to be controlled. They could not control the stars. They still had to die.