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Originally posted by quackquackFrom the piece:
I don't really like either party or much of what they propose. But if you don't like gridlock the solution is probably to not just blame one party but honestly access the causes of things whether or not you like the "truth"
Instead, people (probably because they are struggling and feel they are less able to compromise) look at a situation and blame ...[text shortened]... st block all of their ideas and have only been in power because they simply fool the public.
"By sabotaging the reputation of an institution of government, the party that is programmatically against government would come out the relative winner."
It's not about blame of one party by the other. It's quite the opposite. The Republican position of reducing the power of government, which is a legitimate political position to promote, is aided by making the government ineffective and inducing the public to blame government in general. This is just political analysis. Can you accept that it is a useful political tactic? Of course the party that is doing it will say it is just blame-gaming, when they are called on their tactics.
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Originally posted by Hugh GlassYou'd love that wouldn't you?
Yes, the Mayan calender is correct, and we see total destruction by "natural" causes..... Volcano would be my first guess.....
Coming Dec. 2012......
No, I'll probably live a long, happy, successful life while you're pushing up daisies.
Annoys you doesn't it?
The USA will be fine. No civil wars, no Balkanization.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungNo it doesn't annoy me,,, there are things we humans have NO control over..
You'd love that wouldn't you?
No, I'll probably live a long, happy, successful life while you're pushing up daisies.
Annoys you doesn't it?
We like to think we do, but all things must pass. There is a beginning and an end.. when you must realize that you are not built to live forever.... just except it.
However I also believe that there will some day be people knocking at my door wanting to take what I have worked hard for. So I have prepared accordingly.
I hope you do live a long succesful life......
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Originally posted by Hugh GlassThe "looters" (beaurocrats, munchkins, capitalists, corrupt Communists, etc) don't tend to come to your door. They take capital on paper, not personal property. If anyone comes to your door to take your personal property and you shoot them you'll be a cop killer.
No it doesn't annoy me,,, there are things we humans have NO control over..
We like to think we do, but all things must pass. There is a beginning and an end.. when you must realize that you are not built to live forever.... just except it.
However I also believe that there will some day be people knocking at my door wanting to take what I have worked hard for. So I have prepared accordingly.
I hope you do live a long succesful life......
Originally posted by JS357If you viewed the Republicans as verbalizing their general beliefs on that we need a smaller government, pointing out the problems with our large government and voting what they believe, then you would see them as more principled and not merely a group that wishes to sabotage the United States for the sake of gaining power. I actually think this much more productive views on economic issue and if those who tended to disagree looked at Republicans that way we could have a more productive general discourse.
From the piece:
"By sabotaging the reputation of an institution of government, the party that is programmatically against government would come out the relative winner."
It's not about blame of one party by the other. It's quite the opposite. The Republican position of reducing the power of government, which is a legitimate political position to promote, ...[text shortened]... ty that is doing it will say it is just blame-gaming, when they are called on their tactics.
Once you decide that a person wishes to sabotage the general good, you cannot expect them to worry about your concerns and you cannot expect to get much done via agreements. Since you seem to wish to govern by give and take perhaps you need to look at your opposition in a more positive light. If you feel that's impossible, then I imagine the polorization will just worsen
Originally posted by quackquackI understand the dilemma of judging my opponent as having harmful intent WRT the common good, while needing to negotiate with that person for the common good. It is possible for a party to fall into a pattern of behavior that its members can't escape, because escape will be seen as betrayal. I am sure that some Republicans don't want to make our government ineffective. I will just leave it with the statement that if your opponent does have the interests of some other group as its priority, you ignore that fact at your peril.
If you viewed the Republicans as verbalizing their general beliefs on that we need a smaller government, pointing out the problems with our large government and voting what they believe, then you would see them as more principled and not merely a group that wishes to sabotage the United States for the sake of gaining power. I actually think this much mo ...[text shortened]... ositive light. If you feel that's impossible, then I imagine the polorization will just worsen
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI seriously doubt I'll have to deal with looters, or cops where I am....
The "looters" (beaurocrats, munchkins, capitalists, corrupt Communists, etc) don't tend to come to your door. They take capital on paper, not personal property. If anyone comes to your door to take your personal property and you shoot them you'll be a cop killer.
If you are in Ca. I think the scenario you paint would be much more likely...
How fast can you get out of the area? Where are the bottle necks where you are most likely to be in harms way? How do you round up your family in a timely manner?
Just saw there was an earthquake in Vancouver Island..... are you prepared for one? How have you prepared? How many natural disatsters have we seen in the past 5 years
I still remember the riots you had after Rodney King, and even before that, was it watts? I have never been in an area where riots have taken place....
when the crap hits the fan, I THINk I am ready..... but there are always surprises, and how to adapt to them can be critical.
oh, and there are no daiseys where I plan to be buried.....
Originally posted by Hugh GlassIf you object to paying taxes then get the hell off our roads and bridges.
No it doesn't annoy me,,, there are things we humans have NO control over..
We like to think we do, but all things must pass. There is a beginning and an end.. when you must realize that you are not built to live forever.... just except it.
However I also believe that there will some day be people knocking at my door wanting to take what I have worked hard for. So I have prepared accordingly.
I hope you do live a long succesful life......
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Originally posted by JS357So its the good democrats against the evil GOP, eh?
I don't expect to sway you, but your comments demand a reply. IMO, the Republican agenda is gridlock and an ignorant public that votes against their own interests.
From today's (Sept 9) SF Chronicle, Jon Carroll's column:
Quote:
The Internets are buzzing about Mike Lofgren's takedown of the Republican Party published by Truthout, the left-wing rabble-ro e.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/08/DD121L1BVM.DTL#ixzz1XTKv0OXX
You say that the GOP has poisened the well for the masses against the government? Who exactly accused "W" of lying about going to war and said that they wanted to impeach him for it? Obama then appoints a czar in Van Jones who was a truther, someone who alleged that the US government played a part in 9/11 etc. If it were not for people like Glenn Beck, whom I assume you loathe, the likes of Van Jones would still be a czar for Obama.
The truth of the matter is that the Dems were in full control of government from 2008 to 2010 and all they did was pass the unpopular Obamacare. Then the public turned on them and sent them packing. They did nothing about the unpopular wars that they chided "W" about, in fact, they started a new one. They did nothing to pursue legal action against "W" like they said they would, they merely wanted to make a big stink for their own political advantage by poisening the well. Either they did not think that "W" should have been impeached, or they neglected they civil duty to pursue such action. Either way they suck.
So please guy, enough of the left winged cool aid.
Originally posted by quackquackIf we ignore all the political rhetoric, and look at the last century or so of US history, it is pretty clear that government has grown exponentially over that time, and the country as a whole has moved toward collectivism.
I don't really like either party or much of what they propose. But if you don't like gridlock the solution is probably to not just blame one party but honestly access the causes of things whether or not you like the "truth"
Instead, people (probably because they are struggling and feel they are less able to compromise) look at a situation and blame ...[text shortened]... st block all of their ideas and have only been in power because they simply fool the public.
We move left under Democrats, we move left a bit more slowly under Republicans. As much as Republicans bemoan Obama's health care law, if SCOTUS doesn't toss it out, a Republican congress and president will probably strengthen and improve it. It isn't going away. Democrats for years pushed for a strengthened Department of Education, and Presciption Drugs. G.W. Bush gave them to us.
There is gridlock now because there aren't any easy solutions. The hacks in Congress and the Administration jousted for a month over the debt ceiling and in the end they made enough cuts to equal about a half a day's borrowing. Is that futility or what? Raise taxes? One economist calculated that an across the board 30% tax increase would set us straight in 25 years, that is if the impossible happened and with that new revenue Congress didn't increase spending.
Cutting spending is equally fruitless, for the population is so addicted to their government goodies, that substantial cuts would bring revolution.
In the end, it will be our ethnic and cultural differences that will do us in, as they have multicultural empires in the past.
Originally posted by SoothfastRoads and bridges are supposedly paid for out of state and federal gas taxes, so if you're driiving you are paying those taxes.
If you object to paying taxes then get the hell off our roads and bridges.
More to the point is why gas taxes are collected at the federal level, and the filtered through so that no state gets back what they paid in, and all the work is done at the State and local level.
Why is some of the road money diverted to Mass Transit, that I don't use and won't use?
Originally posted by SoothfastI agree that #3 and #4 in combination are most likely, not because of gridlock, but because we are a multiethnic empire, without even a common language, more and more cultural division on religious and moral issues, and we're broke.
A mixture of (3) and (4) is possible, with some states or groups of states breaking away peacefully, and other states attempting to do so but either break apart themselves or experience some civil unrest up to and including shooting. The federal government, being gridlocked as you say, will experience confusion, with conflicting orders being sent to the m ...[text shortened]... stitution which largely was drafted by the Allies (read: the U.S.) at the end of World War II.
In a state of economic decline, every group blames every other group.
The seeming inefficiencies of the government under the Constitution are intentional. The bicammeral legislature ensures that large States can't ignore and overwhelm the smaller ones. The executive and Courts are meant to be independent of the legislature, and the Constitution itself is difficult to amend.
Another dispersion of power, was the election of the Senate by less than democratic means. The president's election by the electoral college instead of by popular national vote, also according to plan.