28 Sep 14
I came across this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/technology/iphone-locks-out-the-nsa-signaling-a-post-snowden-era-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Basically the Director of the FBI says about encryption on the iPhone 6:
“What concerns me about this is companies marketing something expressly to allow people to hold themselves beyond the law.”
Essentially it seems that in the US, there is no legal right to privacy.
What do people here think? Should all technology be made with a built in back door so that government agencies (hopefully armed with warrant), can access all your data? Is it fundamentally wrong to allow people to keep their data private?
Aside: obviously the NSA does not actually get warrants.
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadJust go live in North Korea, Russia, or Iran and get back to us on how your freedom is being abused in Big Bad America.
I came across this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/technology/iphone-locks-out-the-nsa-signaling-a-post-snowden-era-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Basically the Director of the FBI says about encryption on the iPhone 6:
[quote]“What concerns me about thi ...[text shortened]... w people to keep their data private?
Aside: obviously the NSA does not actually get warrants.
28 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Krod MandoonSo I take it you agree with the FBI director? Do you also feel that Apple is wrong to include encryption on their phones without giving the FBI the secret passwords?
Just go live in North Korea, Russia, or Iran and get back to us on how your freedom is being abused in Big Bad America.
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadKrod Mandoon feels that as long as things are going better than in North Korea, there's nothing to worry about.
So I take it you agree with the FBI director? Do you also feel that Apple is wrong to include encryption on their phones without giving the FBI the secret passwords?
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadAmericans have given up their freedoms in exchange for the gift of going back to their European style Manor. Americans believe in having the elites take care of them.
I came across this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/technology/iphone-locks-out-the-nsa-signaling-a-post-snowden-era-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Basically the Director of the FBI says about encryption on the iPhone 6:
[quote]“What concerns me about thi ...[text shortened]... w people to keep their data private?
Aside: obviously the NSA does not actually get warrants.
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadI am amazed that people don't use encryption already, seriously. On my PC I use a VPN, encrypted, on my android I use Orbot which is the Tor network in mobile form, its not that I have anything to hide, its simply I know what the NSA and others are capable of and why make it easy for them? The director of the FBI is talking pants, what is beyond the law is using law that is specifically designed as a counter terrorism method to trawl huge amounts of data from ordinary people.
I came across this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/technology/iphone-locks-out-the-nsa-signaling-a-post-snowden-era-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Basically the Director of the FBI says about encryption on the iPhone 6:
[quote]“What concerns me about thi ...[text shortened]... w people to keep their data private?
Aside: obviously the NSA does not actually get warrants.
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28 Sep 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadThere is always going to be tension between security and privacy (or liberty in general).
I came across this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/technology/iphone-locks-out-the-nsa-signaling-a-post-snowden-era-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Basically the Director of the FBI says about encryption on the iPhone 6:
[quote]“What concerns me about thi ...[text shortened]... w people to keep their data private?
Aside: obviously the NSA does not actually get warrants.
28 Sep 14
"Breaking the code, according to an Apple technical guide, could take “more than 5 1/2 years to try all combinations of a six-character alphanumeric passcode with lowercase letters and numbers.” (Computer security experts question that figure, because Apple does not fully realize how quickly the N.S.A. supercomputers can crack codes.)"
so no, it's not unbreakable, but it eliminates government spooks from listening on you talking with your mistresss or buying some weed from your dealer.
if there is a legitimate reason, one can obtain a warrant and get it decrypted.
29 Sep 14
4 edits
Originally posted by ZahlanziNo wonder security experts are questioning that figure, any hacker with a pc can crack 8 digit alphanumeric passwords in minutes,
"Breaking the code, according to an Apple technical guide, could take “more than 5 1/2 years to try all combinations of a six-character alphanumeric passcode with lowercase letters and numbers.” (Computer security experts question that figure, because Apple does not fully realize how quickly the N.S.A. supercomputers can crack codes.)"
so no, it's not un ...[text shortened]... your dealer.
if there is a legitimate reason, one can obtain a warrant and get it decrypted.
Ordinary desktop computers can test over a hundred million passwords per second using password cracking tools that run on a general purpose CPU and billions of passwords per second using GPU-based password cracking tools.[4][5][6] See: John the Ripper benchmarks.[7] A user-selected eight-character password with numbers, mixed case, and symbols, reaches an estimated 30-bit strength, according to NIST. 230 is only one billion permutations and would take an average of 16 minutes to crack.[8] When ordinary desktop computers are combined in a cracking effort, as can be done with botnets, the capabilities of password cracking are considerably extended. In 2002, distributed.net successfully found a 64-bit RC5 key in four years, in an effort which included over 300,000 different computers at various times, and which generated an average of over 12 billion keys per second.[9] Graphics processors can speed up password cracking by a factor of 50 to 100 over general purpose computers. As of 2011, available commercial products claim the ability to test up to 2,800,000,000 passwords a second on a standard desktop computer using a high-end graphics processor.[10] Such a device can crack a 10 letter single-case password in one day. Note that the work can be distributed over many computers for an additional speedup proportional to the number of available computers with comparable GPUs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Password_cracking
the bottom line is this, if the NSA want to hack your phone, your PC, they WILL hack your phone and your PC, apples encryption is a gimmik, 5 1/2 years, using what? two tin cans and a piece of string?
29 Sep 14
Originally posted by JS357Yes, I agree, but my question is where do you think the line should be drawn? Clearly dictatorships believe there should be no privacy.
There is always going to be tension between security and privacy (or liberty in general).
In Europe I believe privacy is typically valued higher than in the US, whereas the right to do what you like, such as own a gun, is valued more in the US than Europe.
The question for this thread is whether or not government has a right to the data on your phone, and if you choose to encrypt it are you breaking some law by denying governments right to see it.
This seems to me to be the opposite of the philosophy behind 'the right to remain silent'.
Lets also look at it this way: suppose you have an unbreakable safe in your house. Government gets a search warrant but still can't get in your safe. Were you wrong to build the safe without providing the government a spare set of keys, just in case they needed to take a peek inside?
29 Sep 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIts not actually that simple. How long it takes to crack a password, depends on how long it takes to check whether or not a given password is valid. Without knowledge of the latter time frame, you cannot know how long it will take to crack a given password.
No wonder security experts are questioning that figure, any hacker with a pc can crack 8 digit alphanumeric passwords in minutes,
29 Sep 14
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadNow you are simply stating the obvious. In the real world people dont change passwords nearly as often as they should and if some dude with a PC can hack an eight digit alphanumeric password in 16 minutes by brute force then how long is someone like a government agency with essentially unlimited resources likely to take to crack a 6 digit one provided it is valid? five and a half years, I don't think so.
Its not actually that simple. How long it takes to crack a password, depends on how long it takes to check whether or not a given password is valid. Without knowledge of the latter time frame, you cannot know how long it will take to crack a given password.