Originally posted by kmax87That's pretty good. Since you're fond of quoting the Bible, here are some things for you to ponder: If a man shall not work, then let him not eat; and here's one of my favorites: You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. Anyway, your idea of charity seems to be to let the government federalize it so you don't have to get your hands dirty by looking the man in the face. As for me, I'd prefer to have some say in the matter -- for instance, if I give you charity, I expect that you will quit engaging in all your self-destructive behaviors like drug use, gambling, whoring, drinking, doing gangsta stuff, etc. Your problem is that you don't want there to be any accountability for anyone, because in your estimation, with your own weakness and failings of character, one day that could be you in the Welfare line. Your way severs the bond of accountability and expectation, not to mention, the call to change bad behaviors. My way allows me to look the man in the eye and say: You're part of this community and there are expectations here that you will change and get over this bad hump or there will be no more aid forthcoming. In other words, my charity is conditional and I will not afford you a lifestyle.
There is a difference between seeing a problem and trying to do something about it and seeing a problem and crossing to the other side of the road and then criticising the motives of anyone willing to engage with that same problem.
When Christ said that the poor would always be with us, he said so not to condemn the poor, but simply to highlight the sad tr ...[text shortened]... in the court of Nebuchadnezzars Babylon who were weighed in the balance and were found wanting.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterI don't believe in open book charity either btw. I do believe in the saying that if you give a hungry man food you may end up having to feed him everyday, but if you teach him to fish he can take care of himself and be of positive benefit to those around him.
As for me, I'd prefer to have some say in the matter -- for instance, if I give you charity, I expect that you will quit engaging in all your self-destructive behaviors like drug use, gambling, whoring, drinking, doing gangsta stuff, etc. Your problem is that you don't want there to be any accountability for anyone, because in your estimation, w ...[text shortened]... h your own weakness and failings of character, one day that could be you in the Welfare line.
I don't like extremes. A welfare system that coddles its 'less fortunate' ends up victimizing and marginalizing the very same people it tries to help.
On the other hand saying to people, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and then being surprised when the larger majority of those trapped by generational lack of achievement fail to launch, is just plain irresponsible.
Without an acknowledgment of the very real factors that have placed some people in cycles of depressive poverty and without any attempt to engage with the problems that often only require some infrastructural change in the providing of access to education and employment opportunities, the true conservative would note that the cost to society on the whole is much greater when a half hearted attempt is made or when nothing is done at all.
This is not some miracle overnight cure for problems that have become established in various regions over the course of many generations. No, this is a long term view of how the whole of society could best be served. A stitch in time saves nine, a tablespoon of medicine is more effective than a tonne of cure.
If welfare has failed in the US then don't shoot the concept or the messenger, shoot the mentality that runs the system. There are other systems of social welfare the world over that do not debilitate those that its programs try and reach and help.
Don't overreact and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Thats all I am saying. There are ways to empower people with charity that do not leave them disabled.
Originally posted by kmax87Just a reminder kmax, state sponsored welfare is not charity. Charity can only ever be voluntary.
I don't believe in open book charity either btw. I do believe in the saying that if you give a hungry man food you may end up having to feed him everyday, but if you teach him to fish he can take care of himself and be of positive benefit to those around him.
I don't like extremes. A welfare system that coddles its 'less fortunate' ends up victimizing and ...[text shortened]... am saying. There are ways to empower people with charity that do not leave them disabled.
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Originally posted by duecerThere were racially motiviated killings by the local Chicano gang of black residents about ten years ago. It's not just whites against the world and the world against whites as many like to think.
Lots of racism talk as of late in the gf and clan forum. I just thought we could talk about it in the appopriate place. What are your feelings on this issue?
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterI work at a charter school and it's chock full of very liberal, very Christian folk. I don't quite fit in...but then I rarely do.
From my perspective, none are more racists than the Democrats. Otherwise, why don't they get on board with the idea of charter or private schools to help struggling inner-city minorities escape failing public schools? And why do Democrats have so much vested in a welfare system that traps poor minorities into a lifetime of dependency? And what ab ...[text shortened]... Do Democrats believe that minorities just can't compete? This all sounds pretty racist to me.
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Originally posted by SeitseThose who sneak into the US, hide from the police, avoid Americans, cling to ethnic enclaves, don't bother to learn English...
Content of character?
So now that's how greencards are called?
So from now on the 'migra' will shout: "Hey, Juan, show me your C.O.C.!"
😛
What kind of character does that show? They provide urban camoflauge for racially based violent gangs. They don't work with the police to flush this trash out. They fly Mexican flags above American flags on US soil on occasion. "La Eme" - "The M" - stands for MEXICAN MAFIA.
These dirtbags have used MY MEXICAN NAME and MY CREDIT HISTORY to rent apartments and never pay. Not once. Not twice. I went to rent an apartment and my credit check pulled up a whole page (or several, I don't remember) of these bastards who did this.
SIXTY PERCENT of 18th Street gang is illegal. Those'd be the rodents who hang out near where my parents live.
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Originally posted by kmax87But what about those who cannot be taught to fish? I work with inner city kids. Lots of them just...won't...learn. They don't care. Some have limited intelligence, but most don't. Most of those who won't learn just weren't brought up in an environment that teaches them to understand and recognize the value of school.
I don't believe in open book charity either btw. I do believe in the saying that if you give a hungry man food you may end up having to feed him everyday, but if you teach him to fish he can take care of himself and be of positive benefit to those around him.
I don't like extremes. A welfare system that coddles its 'less fortunate' ends up victimizing and am saying. There are ways to empower people with charity that do not leave them disabled.
Don't get me wrong; we have our share of superstars too. One of the kids (very dark skin in case anyone cares), when given an assignment to draw the Bohr model of an atom, pleaded with me to show him how to draw uranium while the other kids were doing lithium and carbon. He gets perfect scores on everything. We have quite a few of that sort of kid, and most of them, like most of our students, are black.
I bring this up so that I don't give the impression that inner city black kids are dumb as a rule. It's just the ones who are brought up poorly who are dumber than they should be given the capabilities of their brains. That is, their dumbness is caused by poor upbringing, not poor genes.
Anyway, the point is, some people can't practically be taught to fish. We can't make them stop breeding, and society keeps feeding them...we're stuck in a bread-and-circuses sort of cycle with respect to those people.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungEither won't learn or can't learn, the result is the same, and they always blame the crummy life they end up with on everybody but themselves.
But what about those who cannot be taught to fish? I work with inner city kids. Lots of them just...won't...learn. They don't care. Some have limited intelligence, but most don't. Most of those who won't learn just weren't brought up in an environment that teaches them to understand and recognize the value of school.
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterIf you would not offend the most high either, you may want to consider the many things written by the prophets on his behalf regarding those who could care less of the plight of the poor. You will not get much joy if you think that the bible supports the conscience of the wealthy.
here are some things for you to ponder: If a man shall not work, then let him not eat; and here's one of my favorites: You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
Proverbs 14:31 (New Living Translation)
31 Those who oppress the poor insult their Maker, but helping the poor honors him.
Isaiah 10:1-4 (New Living Translation)
1 What sorrow awaits the unjust judges and those who issue unfair laws. 2 They deprive the poor of justice and deny the rights of the needy among my people. They prey on widows and take advantage of orphans. 3 What will you do when I punish you, when I send disaster upon you from a distant land? To whom will you turn for help? Where will your treasures be safe? 4 You will stumble along as prisoners or lie among the dead. But even then the Lord’s anger will not be satisfied. His fist is still poised to strike.
Isaiah 58:5-7 (New Living Translation)
5 You humble yourselves by going through the motions of penance, bowing your heads like reeds bending in the wind. You dress in burlap and cover yourselves with ashes. Is this what you call fasting? Do you really think this will please the Lord? 6 “No, this is the kind of fasting I want: Free those who are wrongly imprisoned; lighten the burden of those who work for you. Let the oppressed go free, and remove the chains that bind people. 7 Share your food with the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help.
Amos 5:11-14 (New Living Translation)
11 You trample the poor, stealing their grain through taxes and unfair rent. Therefore, though you build beautiful stone houses, you will never live in them. Though you plant lush vineyards, you will never drink wine from them. 12 For I know the vast number of your sins and the depth of your rebellions. You oppress good people by taking bribes and deprive the poor of justice in the courts. 13 So those who are smart keep their mouths shut, for it is an evil time. 14 Do what is good and run from evil so that you may live! Then the Lord God of Heaven’s Armies will be your helper, just as you have claimed.
James 5:1-6 (New Living Translation)
1 Look here, you rich people: Weep and groan with anguish because of all the terrible troubles ahead of you. 2 Your wealth is rotting away, and your fine clothes are moth-eaten rags. 3 Your gold and silver have become worthless. The very wealth you were counting on will eat away your flesh like fire. This treasure you have accumulated will stand as evidence against you on the day of judgment. 4 For listen! Hear the cries of the field workers whom you have cheated of their pay. The wages you held back cry out against you. The cries of those who harvest your fields have reached the ears of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. 5 You have spent your years on earth in luxury, satisfying your every desire. You have fattened yourselves for the day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and killed innocent people, who do not resist you.
1 Timothy 6:17-19 (New Living Translation)
17 Teach those who are rich in this world not to be proud and not to trust in their money, which is so unreliable. Their trust should be in God, who richly gives us all we need for our enjoyment. 18 Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and generous to those in need, always being ready to share with others. 19 By doing this they will be storing up their treasure as a good foundation for the future so that they may experience true life.
Originally posted by kmax87Take it to the mystical magical spirituality board.
If you would not offend the most high either, you may want to consider the many things written by the prophets on his behalf regarding those who could care less of the plight of the poor. You will not get much joy if you think that the bible supports the conscience of the wealthy.
Proverbs 14:31 (New Living Translation)
31 Those who oppress the poor ...[text shortened]... ing up their treasure as a good foundation for the future so that they may experience true life.
Originally posted by kmax87What you say does not sound unreasonable, however, by any accounting, the Great Society programs have failed people, made them dependent upon the government for susistance, and wasted trillions of dollars. Before the government started wetnursing everyone, Americans were a pretty independant, hearty bunch who survived 200 years in the New World and tamed the frontier without the need for a Department of Human Services.
I don't believe in open book charity either btw. I do believe in the saying that if you give a hungry man food you may end up having to feed him everyday, but if you teach him to fish he can take care of himself and be of positive benefit to those around him.
I don't like extremes. A welfare system that coddles its 'less fortunate' ends up victimizing and ...[text shortened]... am saying. There are ways to empower people with charity that do not leave them disabled.