@wajoma saidMein Kampf and the Bible have also sold a lot of copies. So what?
No need to apologise to me that the book is over your head. ATY thinks Atlas Shrugged is about pirates, so you're not alone.
Edit: 9 million copies, 20 different languages, still going strong and No.1 thinks it's about rape and not going through the proper legal channels.
I find this to be much more discussable than whatever y'all are talkiing about....after all, it is about her philosophy...
Why is it immoral for me to make and keep something of value, but moral to give it away. And if it is not moral for me to keep it, how is it Possibly moral for others to accept it?
@athousandyoung saidDominique not only tells Roark to stop repeatedly she also physically resists. Even by 1949 standards which in many States required physical resistance by the victim, this is undoubtedly a legal rape.
[quote]https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/fountainhead/section5/page/2/
Analysis: Chapters 1–5
In these chapters, Rand begins to reveal more of Dominique’s motivations and nature. Dominique is a masochist who refuses to let herself become attached to anything or anyone and lives her life amidst the very things that torture her...
Rand presents Dominique’s rape as a ...[text shortened]... e implied justification is that Dominique was a submissive who really wanted to be raped so it's ok.
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@no1marauder saidOnly according to the GUVAMINT
Dominique not only tells Roark to stop repeatedly she also physically resists. Even by 1949 standards which in many States required physical resistance by the victim, this is undoubtedly a legal rape.
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Let us not forget Wajoma's post in another thread:
@athousandyoung said in every legal sense.
Wajoma: You're on the cusp. Keep trying.
These Objectivist/Libertartian types will claim ownership sans proof despite what the law says, but if someone else claims ownership of their legal property, they whip out their property deeds and demand the other guy "prove" his claim. They have a relationship of convenience with the law. When it's convenient for them, the law is paramount; when inconvenient, the law is a corrupt creation of the moochers which can be rightfully ignored.
@athousandyoung saidThere's no cop out in 'The Fountainhead' we're privy to all the relevant conversations, it's a book, we know that there was an agreement that the building was to built as it was designed by Roark otherwise he would not have worked on it. No1 tried the boohoo Keating wasn't the owner tack, it's puerile, for the sake of the story and often in real life people are employed to act as agents for owners and investors with the authority to make such decisions.
The agreement was with Keating, not the owners, and according to Ayn Rand, Roark should have called the government to arbitrate. If he had done so he would have lost the arbitration because he had no evidence supporting his claim.
MAYBE he could have sued Keating, IF Keating was willing to admit that he made the agreement. But dynamiting the building should have p ...[text shortened]... de their masters wealthy and some of that wealth is rightfully theirs!" "Can they prove it?"
Etc.
A deal which was made, there in black and white in the book, proven, the building must be built as it was designed, a condition of contract, a promise. We don't need to see a copy of the contract any more than we need to see a lump of bluish Reardon steel
No1 and ATY - There was something in a book, it shouldn't have been written that way. Solution: write your own book. The blowing up of the building was a major part of the story line, it lead to the courtroom scene and the speech.
No.1 was having a whinge about me picking one small part of his post to zero in on and disregarding the rest of his post(even though it was only in response to him doing the same thing). This is exactly what you both do with this i.e. Howard Roark blew up a building, he shouldn't have done that. When the why of him blowing up the building is pointed out, over and over, it is ignored over and over. There's a story leading up to the building blown up - ignored. There's a continuation and explanation of why the building was blown up - ignored.
Howard Roark blew up a building, he shouldn't have done that. If that's all you and No1 can manage to get out of the book, if that's the limit of your comprehension, then it's not for you, go and see Barbie the movie.
@wajoma said
There's no cop out in 'The Fountainhead' we're privy to all the relevant conversations, it's a book, we know that there was an agreement that the building was to built as it was designed by Roark otherwise he would not have worked on it. No1 tried the boohoo Keating wasn't the owner tack, it's puerile, for the sake of the story and often in real life people are employed to ac ...[text shortened]... book, if that's the limit of your comprehension, then it's not for you, go and see Barbie the movie.
bluish Reardon steel
It was greenish because of the copper that Hank Rearden needed for his alloy's recipe. That's why Francisco the copper baron and Ragnar the pirate who targets copper shipments were so relevant to the plot.
We have clearly demonstrated that we got more out of that book than you did.
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@athousandyoung saidWhat an ijit, it was blue green, the actual colour is not the point, there is no actual colour, it's a fictional metal and that was my point with the metal and the Keating/Roark contract.bluish Reardon steel
It was greenish because of the copper that Hank Rearden needed for his alloy's recipe. That's why Francisco the copper baron and Ragnar the pirate who targets copper shipments were so relevant to the plot.
We have clearly demonstrated that we got more out of that book than you did.
There was a metal. The colour is not important to the story.
There was a contract between Keating and Roark. What paper it was written on if any, and the grammar is not important to the story.
However such details are important to nerds who would rather do anything than deal with the actual message of both books.
If fiction is beyond you try the collections of essays.
Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.
The Virtue of Selfishness. (The title intentionally chosen to light up the cry babies)
Philosophy: Who Needs It (you do ATY, you do)
Edit: BTW this type of tactic, seizing on some minor irrelevant point is what No.1 was crying about previously.
No.1 said:
"Obviously, you don't even want to discuss it, as you keep omitting from your quoting of my posts the bulk of my points. This is a standard tactic of those who want to avoid a substantive debate."
BTW2 check out the colour of copper oxide, the alloy could have been anything, any colour, it could have been from some made up undiscovered metal, but that is what you frantically grapple for?
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@wajoma saidIt was greenish blue because all iron is blue. "Blue steel" is not a new term.
What an ijit, it was blue green, the actual colour is not the point, there is no actual colour, it's a fictional metal and that was my point with the metal and the Keating/Roark contract.
There was a metal. The colour is not important to the story.
There was a contract between Keating and Roark. What paper it was written on if any, and the grammar is not important to th ...[text shortened]... tle intentionally chosen to light up the cry babies)
Philosophy: Who Needs It (you do ATY, you do)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_blue
I've already been quoting from the "Virtue of Selfishness". I haven't seen your commentary on that.
EDIT
BTW2 check out the colour of copper oxide,
It's green...which is why Reardon Metal is greenish...
https://wallpaper-mania.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/High_resolution_wallpaper_background_ID_77700314916.jpg
Copper was a symbol of Liberty for Rand because of the Statue of Liberty which is why it WAS important.
@athousandyoung saidBUMP for WajomaAyn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness “The Nature of Government,”:
even a society whose every member were fully rational and faultlessly moral, could not function in a state of anarchy; it is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.
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@athousandyoung saidWhoah, whoah, whoah, can we get a look at this bluish green metal, have you got pictures, was it blue green or green blue, was there more blue than green, that would make me right and you'd be wrong haha but we're agreeing there was some blue, BTW I said bluish metal , not 'Blue Steel' so why and who are you quoting when you say "Blue Steel" who are you arguing with about this crucial point, what is this new term where did it come from, how is it relevant. Have you got a Hex code or an RGB colour code,
It was greenish blue because all iron is blue. "Blue steel" is not a new term.
I've already been quoting from the "Virtue of Selfishness". I haven't seen your commentary on that.
If the colour of this fictional material is going to be the gauge by which we measure our understanding of the book then this needs to be settled. Maybe some kind of scale of understanding.
Ijit, you want to double down on the colour of a fictional metal?
Have you ever blued a piece of steel? I have.
"Copper will start to react with the oxygen in the air to form copper oxide. The copper oxide will continue reacting to oxygen over time. As the copper oxide continues to react with carbon dioxide and water in the air it coats the surface with that iconic blue-green patina colour.
@wajoma saidYou really should use the same description of the metal that Rand does.
Whoah, whoah, whoah, can we get a look at this bluish green metal, have you got pictures, was it blue green or green blue, was there more blue than green, that would make me right and you'd be wrong haha but we're agreeing there was some blue, BTW I said bluish metal , not 'Blue Steel' so why and who are you quoting when you say "Blue Steel" who are you arguing with about this ...[text shortened]... to double down on the colour of a fictional metal?
Have you ever blued a piece of steel? I have.
https://archive.org/stream/AtlasShrugged/atlas%20shrugged_djvu.txt
Lillian Rearden picked it up, hooked on the tips of two straight fingers,
and raised it to the light. The links were heavy, crudely made, the shining
metal had an odd tinge, it was greenish-blue.
"Greenish-blue" clearly describes the metal as predominantly blue steel alloyed with a small amount of copper.
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@athousandyoung saidNo.1 said:
You really should use the same description of the metal that Rand does.https://archive.org/stream/AtlasShrugged/atlas%20shrugged_djvu.txt
Lillian Rearden picked it up, hooked on the tips of two straight fingers,
and raised it to the light. The links were heavy, crudely made, the shining
metal had an odd tinge, it was greenish-blue.
...[text shortened]... blue" clearly describes the metal as predominantly blue steel alloyed with a small amount of copper.
"Obviously, you don't even want to discuss it, as you keep omitting from your quoting of my posts the bulk of my points. This is a standard tactic of those who want to avoid a substantive debate."
How does the saying go, never argue with an ijit, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you up with their superior ijit experience. I deserve an apology from you for a complete waste of time.
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@no1marauder saidYou earlier described the rape in this way:
Dominique not only tells Roark to stop repeatedly she also physically resists. Even by 1949 standards which in many States required physical resistance by the victim, this is undoubtedly a legal rape.
He even gets the girl in the end and this one he doesn't have to rape (like the first sex scene in the book).
We should keep in mind that Dominique is the same woman who is raped by AND who married Roark. It was not two different women. Your earlier post implies two different women.
@wajoma said
Whoah, whoah, whoah, can we get a look at this bluish green metal, have you got pictures, was it blue green or green blue, was there more blue than green, that would make me right and you'd be wrong haha but we're agreeing there was some blue, BTW I said bluish metal , not 'Blue Steel' so why and who are you quoting when you say "Blue Steel" who are you arguing with about this ...[text shortened]... bon dioxide and water in the air it coats the surface with that iconic blue-green patina colour.[/i]
BTW I said bluish metal , not 'Blue Steel'
Which was, in Ayn Rand's words, produced by the Rearden Steel company and used as a substitute for steel in railways.