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@no1marauder saidIt only goes back to April. But that's still pretty early in the lockdown, so okay.
Look at the graph, Vivify.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself; an incumbent President losing by more than 7 million votes and at least 4% is a "solid rejection".
A difference of 7 million out if 161 million total votes is a "solid rejection". Okay buddy.
If Trump becomes old news after this year, that's something I'd gladly welcome. A self pardon, if upheld, would still be a travesty.
@no1marauder saidSurely someone can’t pardon themselves!
Look at the graph, Vivify.
You should simply have the good grace to say you were wrong.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself; an incumbent President losing by more than 7 million votes and at least 4% is a "solid rejection".
Once Trump is out of office, his "base" won't have the slightest interest in him.
Come back in a year and we'll see who's right if Trump does self-pardon.
Anyhoo. I think you underestimate the discord that’s been sewn.
This isn’t even a trump thing. trump is a manifestation of a cancer which has been growing since the 80’s.
And what’s feeding it is cultural disenchantment.
So, on one hand there’s a group of people who’s bubble’s have been popped too quickly for them to adapt to, and in the other hand, there are politicians tapping into that, feeding it, for their own personal gain.
And that circle’s been well established over 1,5 to 2 generations.
And that is some vent up anger which is brewing.
@vivify saidThe first line on the graph is September 2, 2019. Biden was up by 9.5% at that point. That was a high point; by February 1 it was 5.4%. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html
It only goes back to April. But that's still pretty early in the lockdown, so okay.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself; an incumbent President losing by more than 7 million votes and at least 4% is a "solid rejection".
A difference of 7 million out if 161 million total votes is a "solid rejection". Okay buddy.
If Trump becomes old news after this year, that's something I'd gladly welcome. A self pardon, if upheld, would still be a travesty.
@no1marauder saidOkay. But again: Hillary.
The first line on the graph is September 2, 2019. Biden was up by 9.5% at that point. That was a high point; by February 1 it was 5.4%. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html
@vivify saidDo we really have to do this AGAIN?
Okay. But again: Hillary.
https://fusion.inquirer.com/politics/election/trump-biden-2020-pennsylvania-polls-clinton-2016-20201028.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/why-biden-s-poll-lead-different-hillary-clinton-s-n1243837
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/07/04/heres-why-joe-bidens-lead-in-the-polls-is-stronger-than-hillary-clintons-was/?sh=1ea0210e6737
Bottom line: Trump was an unpopular incumbent, the third party vote was destined to be far smaller, there were far fewer undecideds and Biden, unlike HRC, had a slight net favorability rating.
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@no1marauder
And more to the point, he can pardon himself and his family all he wants or have Pence pardon him and his family when Trump resigns an hour before Jan 20, and Pence is POTUS for an hour and THIS POTUS pardons Trump, none of that will change one bit the STATE charges looming on Trump's horizon.
I just hope the house and senate come together to limit the pardon power by making it a crime to grant a pardon as a bribe and payback for not testifying against a POTUS. ANY POTUS.
You may remember the fit sssit the country went to when NIXON pardoned all those watergate folks.
We remember that and a lot more.
@no1marauder saidAt the beginning of the the thread, you said Republicans "will have to face the voters in less than two years" to answer for why they supported Trump, including a possible self-pardon.
Do we really have to do this AGAIN?
https://fusion.inquirer.com/politics/election/trump-biden-2020-pennsylvania-polls-clinton-2016-20201028.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/why-biden-s-poll-lead-different-hillary-clinton-s-n1243837
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/07/04/heres-why-joe-bidens-lead-in-the-polls-is-stronger-than-hi ...[text shortened]... maller, there were far fewer undecideds and Biden, unlike HRC, had a slight net favorability rating.
I mentioned the Reelections of Mitch McConnell, Susan Collins and Ted Cruz to show that you were wrong. That, and the fact that Dems couldn't flip the Senate, like you predicted, and Dems lost ground in the House. You sidestepped this point to change the subject. I sometimes forget about your Kellyanne Conway-style of posting.
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@vivify saidCruz got re-elected in 2018.
At the beginning of the the thread, you said Republicans "will have to face the voters in less than two years" to answer for why they supported Trump, including a possible self-pardon.
I mentioned the Reelections of Mitch McConnell, Susan Collins and Ted Cruz to show that you were wrong. That, and the fact that Dems couldn't flip the Senate, like you predicted, and Dems ...[text shortened]... this point to change the subject. I sometimes forget about your Kellyanne Conway-style of posting.
McConnell won big in a deep red State.
Collins' win hardly supports your idea that Trumpism has a stranglehold on the GOP.
The Dems might still flip the Senate and won most of the House races. When Trump took office, the GOP held about 235 seats in the House; after this election they'll have 210 to 212.
And none of that is terribly relevant to my main point which is a Trump self-pardon would be a political albatross to the Republicans.
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@no1marauder saidNot shutting down the government for the longest stretch in U.S. history,
And none of that is terribly relevant to my main point which is a Trump self-pardon would be a political albatross to the Republicans.
Not siding with Putin over the U.S. government on live TV in front of the whole world,
Not withholding military aid in order force a foreign government to interferer in a U.S. election,
Not committing obstruction of justice by firing Comey, ignoring Congressional subpoenas AND ordering others to do the same,
Not being caught caught publicly lying about the severity of the pandemic,
Not the over 20,000 documents lies in just the last 4 years,
Not secret police snatching protestors off the streets in unmarked vehicles,
Not Trump trying to overturn the results of the election with false conspiracy claims, frivolous lawsuits and asking electors to overturn the results,
Not pardoning Joe Arpaio, who repeatedly arrested Hispanics without due process, putting them in chain gangs and subjected them to humiliating treatment,
Not, "S--- hole countries", the military trans ban, the Muslim ban, abandoning Kurdish allies, Killing Soleimani, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.......
But supporting Trump if he pardons himself....THAT will be the day of reckoning for Republicans.
Okay buddy.
@vivify said(Shrug) Believe what you want.
Not shutting down the government for the longest stretch in U.S. history,
Not siding with Putin over the U.S. government on live TV in front of the whole world,
Not withholding military aid in order force a foreign government to interferer in a U.S. election,
Not committing obstruction of justice by firing Comey, ignoring Congressional subpoenas AND ordering others to do t ...[text shortened]... ng Trump if he pardons himself....THAT will be the day of reckoning for Republicans.
Okay buddy.
See ya in a year.
@Duchess64
And the whole world of humans will be better off because Trump lost.
There will be no regrets said by ANY other foreign country.
They WILL say 'GOOD RIDDANCE" with good reason.
Whatever influence and credibility the US once enjoyed is totally gone now.
What country allied to the US can trust us now?
Now they would look at our foreign policy and wonder if we can EVER be trusted again, they would think something like 'so Biden is in now, he reinstates the agreements Trump killed but 4 years later maybe Trump even wins again and again kills the agreements and treaties we used to have like the Paris accords so there is no consistency in US policy and so why should we believe ANYTHING said by US leaders?'