Resource driven economy (Jacque Fresco)

Originally posted by Jigtie
Budget is not an issue in a resource based economy.

Yes it is, how would you ration scarse resources in a fair way otherwise?

Originally posted by Jigtie
Any arguments against of for it? As a socialist at heart I find it to be a very alluring set of ideas.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/10/13/jacque-fresco-prediction-tech-future07-cx_1015fresco.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy

A major theme of Fresco's is the concept of a resource-based economy that replaces ...[text shortened]... survival.

I seriously like this man.

http://www.fbdthemovie.com/trailer.html

I have long maintained this. We have the capacity to adequately feed, clothe and house every man, woman and child on the earth today. We have the capacity to produce a superabundance of goods. Far more than we could possibly use. So why don't we? Because we cannot do so at a profit. The people of the world cannot afford to buy back all the products that we are capable of creating. Or if we did create them it would drive prices down so those selling them would not make as much of a profit. So we deliberately curtail industrial output and we deliberately cut back on agricultural production. We maintain an enforced scarcity so that those who own the productive resources of the earth can make a profit. Millions of people starve and live in abject poverty, not because we can't help them, but because we cannot do so at a profit. The profit motive is by far the single greatest obstacle toward eradicating hunger and poverty that there is.

Originally posted by rwingett
I have long maintained this. We have the capacity to adequately feed, clothe and house every man, woman and child on the earth today. We have the capacity to produce a superabundance of goods. Far more than we could possibly use. So why don't we? Because we cannot do so at a profit. The people of the world cannot afford to buy back all the products that we ...[text shortened]... ve is by far the single greatest obstacle toward eradicating hunger and poverty that there is.

Who is this "we" when you say "we deliberately curtail industrial output". If the "we" means you are a politician pooping out new regulations each week governing every aspect of business then I'd agree and say you are the problem.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Who is this "we" when you say "we deliberately curtail industrial output". If the "we" means you are a politician pooping out new regulations each week governing every aspect of business then I'd agree and say you are the problem.

You bore me, Wajoma. 😴

Originally posted by rwingett
You bore me, Wajoma. 😴

Seems like a reasonable question, who is the "we" you refer to in:

"So we deliberately curtail industrial output and we deliberately cut back on agricultural production."

Originally posted by Wajoma
Seems like a reasonable question, who is the "we" you refer to in:

"So we deliberately curtail industrial output and we deliberately cut back on agricultural production."

Why is there unemployment? Is it because everybody already has all the food, shelter and clothing they can possibly use? No, it's because they cannot be employed at a profit for the owners of the productive resources. So even though there is rampant need across the world, people are laid off, thus idling productive capacity. The profit motive is an anti-social motivator. Instead of providing for the needs of the many, our productive resources are used for the profit of the few. Instead of eradicating hunger and want, we have scarcity enforced by the profit motive.

Originally posted by rwingett
Why is there unemployment? Is it because everybody already has all the food, shelter and clothing they can possibly use? No, it's because they cannot be employed at a profit for the owners of the productive resources. So even though there is rampant need across the world, people are laid off, thus idling productive capacity. The profit motive is an anti-soc ...[text shortened]... he few. Instead of eradicating hunger and want, we have scarcity enforced by the profit motive.

I wont bother asking the same question a third time, seems you can't answer or don't want to bother answering it.

No sweat guy.

Originally posted by Wajoma
I wont bother asking the same question a third time, seems you can't answer or don't want to bother answering it.

No sweat guy.

Are you a complete idiot? The answer is the owner of the productive resources. The capitalists. Do I have to tattoo it on your forehead for you to figure it out?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Not really, since anarchy results in exploitation, violence and war.

Only with uncivilised people (as, granted, most people are today). You have to remember, the aim is
to provide the same conditions for everyone (education, standards of living, resources and
opportunities). He argues that under such conditions there would be no crime (there's simply no
incentive to do crime since we don't measure everything in monetary values), hence no need for
police or a ruling government.

I'm a bit sceptical about that "no crime"-part myself (considering the myriad of crimes based on
other factors than purely economical or social desperation), but I'm not a stranger to the idea that
everyone will eventually learn to see the enormous, personal benefits of living in such a society.

Originally posted by Jigtie
Only with uncivilised people (as, granted, most people are today). You have to remember, the aim is
to provide the same conditions for everyone (education, standards of living, resources and
opportunities). He argues that under such conditions there would be no crime (there's simply no
incentive to do crime since we don't measure everything in monetary ...[text shortened]... will eventually learn to see the enormous, personal benefits of living in such a society.

Suppose there is a Joe Smith in this hypothetical society who likes to rape children. Who punishes him when there is no government? Do you think vigilante justice would really work? How would the weak be protected against the strong?

Anarchy, in the end, does not make everyone equal - it causes the strong to exploit the weak.

Originally posted by rwingett
I have long maintained this. We have the capacity to adequately feed, clothe and house every man, woman and child on the earth today. We have the capacity to produce a superabundance of goods. Far more than we could possibly use. So why don't we? Because we cannot do so at a profit. The people of the world cannot afford to buy back all the products that we ...[text shortened]... ve is by far the single greatest obstacle toward eradicating hunger and poverty that there is.

So let's say you want to get rid of this profit motive. How would it work?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Suppose there is a Joe Smith in this hypothetical society who likes to rape children. Who punishes him when there is no government? Do you think vigilante justice would really work? How would the weak be protected against the strong?

Anarchy, in the end, does not make everyone equal - it causes the strong to exploit the weak.

I'm a bit sceptical about that "no crime"-part myself (considering the myriad of crimes
based on other factors than purely economical or social desperation)

But thinking about it, I suppose the mentally ill would have to be taken care of in mental institutions.
No government doesn't automatically translate to no means of regulating and/or upholding laws,
does it? Icelandic Commonwealth is but one example of that, albeit perhaps not one I'd like to see
re-introduced.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So let's say you want to get rid of this profit motive. How would it work?

In a resource based economy, there's no such thing as profit. Hence, the profit motive is gone.

Originally posted by Jigtie
Any arguments against of for it? As a socialist at heart I find it to be a very alluring set of ideas.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/10/13/jacque-fresco-prediction-tech-future07-cx_1015fresco.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy

A major theme of Fresco's is the concept of a resource-based economy that replaces ...[text shortened]... survival.

I seriously like this man.

http://www.fbdthemovie.com/trailer.html

labor is the #1 natural resource.

Originally posted by Jigtie
In a resource based economy, there's no such thing as profit. Hence, the profit motive is gone.

So why would anyone work or invest?