@spruce112358 saidSome peoples cannot make democracy work. They don't have the necessary depth of collective experience of multi-party-ism, nor do they have the requisite social institutions (apolitical judiciary, free press, universal literacy especially for girls and unrestricted access to college education especially for women, etc.etc.) to make democracy work for them. Case in point: Afghanistan. 20 years of coaching by the Western allies were not sufficient to make the Afghan people want to fight to keep their freedoms. Within two weeks of the allied retreat from Afghanistan, the Taliban had completely overrun the country, because the Afghan security forces threw down their arms and ran. It's not as though they did not know what was in store for them if the Taliban returned to power--the Afghans don't like the Taliban and view them as invaders. But Western-style democracy just didn't take hold in their still-largely tribal culture.
Rogue nations that perpetrate 'nuclear colonization' by:
a) conquering territory by force and removing 'unwanted' residents,
b) denying remaining 'unwanted' residents within their control political representation and rights to travel and associate,
c) using their military to bomb, kill, and murder those residents when they fight back against the injustices done to t ...[text shortened]... d be replaced with democratic governments that will serve ALL the people within their borders.
😆
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@Cliff-Mashburn saidThe most populous predominately Muslim (87% ) nation in the world is Indonesia. It is a constitutional republic, with a functioning multi-party system and very diverse languages and ethnicity (as many as 600 groups have been identified). Of course, it is not paradise, but it is proof that a predominately Muslim country can be very civilized, by any standard you choose to apply.
It's all of them, most just don't say it out loud.
I bet Spruce here will say so.
BTW, women in Indonesia go out in public without male guardians, wearing bright colours, and with their faces uncovered. The wearing of the burqa or niqab, FGM, and the sequestration of women are nothing to do with Islam; these are a regional peculiarity, specific to parts of No. Africa, Arabia, and/or Iran, and pre-date Mohammed.
@Cliff-Mashburn saidJust a thought to bat around.....who are we to say how the north africans run their countries. It Is What They Do.
Oh hell yeah we could go on for hours about what a sh.i.tshow African nations are and what happens when one tribe of Mau-Mau's takes over and outnumbers another tribe.
It's always instant genocide.
Kind of the same here in America, where one neighborhood of them declares war on anyone from the next neighborhhod over if they come into it.
They sure do like to kill each other.
They move thru the night from Village A and kill people in their beds in Village B. That is the tribal process.
That's what they do.
Ha, dont get me started on wht OUR country does.
@moonbus saidIts all about what kind of Muslims they are. They are not prone [at least for now] to gravitate to Sharia law. You do not know how long that will last.
The most populous predominately Muslim (87% ) nation in the world is Indonesia. It is a constitutional republic, with a functioning multi-party system and very diverse languages and ethnicity (as many as 600 groups have been identified). Of course, it is not paradise, but it is proof that a predominately Muslim country can be very civilized, by any standard you choose to appl ...[text shortened]... gional[/i] peculiarity, specific to parts of No. Africa, Arabia, and/or Iran, and pre-date Mohammed.
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@AverageJoe1 saidTrouble is we feed'em so they can make more and perpetuate the carnage....Funny how the libterdz insist that whites are the worst most violent race on Earth while ignoring what everyone else is doing..
Just a thought to bat around.....who are we to say how the north africans run their countries. It Is What They Do.
They move thru the night from Village A and kill people in their beds in Village B. That is the tribal process.
That's what they do.
Ha, dont get me started on wht OUR country does.
@Cliff-Mashburn saidWell, my last questioin should break some ice. wildgrass, et al, are going to tell us why the lib signs do not say 'Taxpayers Pay Our Student Debt". They wander around in the streets with these signs. I have never been in a street. Have you been in a street?
Trouble is we feed'em so they can make more and perpetuate the carnage....Funny how the libterdz insist that whites are the worst most violent race on Earth while ignoring what everyone else is doing..
@moonbus saidSame goes for Turkey, or at least Istanbul from what I saw. 😆
The most populous predominately Muslim (87% ) nation in the world is Indonesia. It is a constitutional republic, with a functioning multi-party system and very diverse languages and ethnicity (as many as 600 groups have been identified). Of course, it is not paradise, but it is proof that a predominately Muslim country can be very civilized, by any standard you choose to appl ...[text shortened]... gional[/i] peculiarity, specific to parts of No. Africa, Arabia, and/or Iran, and pre-date Mohammed.
@moonbus saidI don't think that's true, and I don't think what happened in Afghanistan had much to do with people 'not understanding democracy.' Afghanistan had a very pro-Western culture in certain places on a time.
Some peoples cannot make democracy work. They don't have the necessary depth of collective experience of multi-party-ism, nor do they have the requisite social institutions (apolitical judiciary, free press, universal literacy especially for girls and unrestricted access to college education especially for women, etc.etc.) to make democracy work for them. Case in point: Afgha ...[text shortened]... s invaders. But Western-style democracy just didn't take hold in their still-largely tribal culture.
The problem, in a nutshell, is that we tried to fight the war "for them" because we didn't want to properly arm and train them (e.g. the pro-Western factions).
I'll leave you to figure out why we did that (hints: defense contractor $$$, but mostly the fear of creating a militarily competent Muslim nation.)
War is for-profit in the United States. Like everything. 😆
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@moonbus saidThat's because it's NOT an Islamic-religious based government.
The most populous predominately Muslim (87% ) nation in the world is Indonesia. It is a constitutional republic, with a functioning multi-party system and very diverse languages and ethnicity (as many as 600 groups have been identified). Of course, it is not paradise, but it is proof that a predominately Muslim country can be very civilized, by any standard you choose to apply.
Almost all the other ones are, that's why they suck.
@spruce112358 saidI didn't know Israel threatened other nations with nuclear holocaust. But clearly Israel is a rogue nation as is the USA. The thing is F limits these rogue nations to those with nukes, so none of them can be an Islamic nation but Pakistan. Right?
Rogue nations that perpetrate 'nuclear colonization' by:
a) conquering territory by force and removing 'unwanted' residents,
b) denying remaining 'unwanted' residents within their control political representation and rights to travel and associate,
c) using their military to bomb, kill, and murder those residents when they fight back against the injustices done to t ...[text shortened]... d be replaced with democratic governments that will serve ALL the people within their borders.
😆
@spruce112358 saidIslamic states that are currently moderate can turn on a dime and suddenly become extremist and adopt Sharia Law. It has happened already and it will happen again and the moderates will just be silent. People who sit on the sidelines and watch this happen over and over without reacting are just plain stupid.
Same goes for Turkey, or at least Istanbul from what I saw. 😆
@Rajk999 saidWe don’t know how long the rule of secular law will last in America either. Some evangelicals in America make no secret of their intention to deconstruct democracy and set up a theocracy there. Democracy is fragile; it depends on people’s willingness to fight for it.
Its all about what kind of Muslims they are. They are not prone [at least for now] to gravitate to Sharia law. You do not know how long that will last.
@spruce112358 saidWhat went wrong in Afghanistan .... it's a country ruled by tribal war lords, each one vying for favor with the 'occupying' allies; they never got the idea of working together to govern themselves, and it fell apart within days of the allies leaving. It was so predictable ...
I don't think that's true, and I don't think what happened in Afghanistan had much to do with people 'not understanding democracy.' Afghanistan had a very pro-Western culture in certain places on a time.
The problem, in a nutshell, is that we tried to fight the war "for them" because we didn't want to properly arm and train them (e.g. the pro-Western factions).
I'l ...[text shortened]... militarily competent Muslim nation.)
War is for-profit in the United States. Like everything. 😆
Go to amazon and search on 'What went wrong in Afghanistan' or the author Metin Gurcan, an author with on-the-ground experience of the region.
@moonbus saidThere are no Christians beheading anyone for not accepting Christianity. There are many examples of Muslims raping and killing people all over the world... Many examples.
We don’t know how long the rule of secular law will last in America either. Some evangelicals in America make no secret of their intention to deconstruct democracy and set up a theocracy there. Democracy is fragile; it depends on people’s willingness to fight for it.
@Rajk999 saidNot beheading. They were kneecapping each other in NI not so long ago, and wiring up bombs in cars.
There are no Christians beheading anyone for not accepting Christianity. There are many examples of Muslims raping and killing people all over the world... Many examples.