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Debates Forum

  1. 30 Oct '12 01:27
    Both sides have ads that stretch the truth or provide a distorted perception, but the Romney Chrysler Jeep ad is just blatantly false, and may actually backfire on Romney in Ohio. Chrysler is booming in the US and they are not moving any Chrysler Jeep jobs or existing production to China. Chrysler has publicly refuted the Romney ad. Instead, what Chrysler is contemplating is adding a Jeep production line in China to satisfy the predicted upcoming demand for Jeeps in China. US jobs and production are not cut or affected. No jobs or production are shifted to China, as alleged in the Romney ad, and obviously blatantly false.

    The story is that this lie began when a right-wing blogger mischaracteized a Bloomberg article on the subject, and the devious and lying Romney campaign went with it.

    While both left groups and non-partisan groups have slammed the ad as blatantly false, some right-wingers are defending the ad as true without any reasoned argument. Hopefully, that will come back to haunt those right-wingers.

    Interestingly, the Fox News web site including any of their opinion articles has not taken a stance or really even acknowledged the ad. A search of their website regarding the ad turned up a single article (on campaigning during the storm) that merely states:

    Vice President Joe Biden and former President Bill Clinton criticized Romney for saying that Chrysler is shifting production of its Jeep brand autos from Ohio to China.

    Campaigning in Youngstown, Ohio, Clinton called Romney's claim "the biggest load of bull in the world."

    Biden said it was "bizarre."

    Clinton, who had been scheduled to appear with Obama, said the president was personally offended by Romney's claim.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/29/romney-obama-campaigns-cancel-events-through-tuesday-over-sandy/
  2. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    30 Oct '12 04:57
    Richie Mitt is getting desperate.
  3. 30 Oct '12 05:11
    Originally posted by moon1969
    While both left groups and non-partisan groups have slammed the ad as blatantly false, some right-wingers are defending the ad as true without any reasoned argument. Hopefully, that will come back to haunt those right-wingers.
    Why would it 'come back to haunt' them? It is my understanding that most republicans are habitual liars and proud of it. Seriously now, have all the other blatant lies (Obamas birth, religion, communism etc) come back to haunt anybody?
  4. 30 Oct '12 15:23
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1

    To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said
  5. 30 Oct '12 16:03
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1

    [b]To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said
    [/b]
    So that means that Romney wasn't lying about Jeep shipping jobs to China?
  6. 30 Oct '12 16:12
    I haven't done much in the way of research on this. I just ran into this and it seems that it is likely we will lose US jobs after Obama saved the company. I believe that was the spirit of the comment and I didn't hear anything about any of this until Romney mentioned it.
  7. 30 Oct '12 16:14
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I just ran into this and it seems that it is likely we will lose US jobs after Obama saved the company.
    That is possible. The question is, will we lose more than if Obama didn't save the company?
  8. 30 Oct '12 19:18
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    That is possible. The question is, will we lose more than if Obama didn't save the company?
    Obama saved the company?

    I thought it went through bankruptcy.
  9. 30 Oct '12 19:24
    Here is a link that has the China connection:

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-to-china/article/2511703

    In a Bloomberg interview, Jeep's president said the automaker plans to restore Jeep production in China, suspended in 2009, and is considering making all Jeeps in China. "Fiat SpA, majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers' operations in the region," reported the business wire service.

  10. 30 Oct '12 19:49
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Obama saved the company?

    I thought it went through bankruptcy.
    Well, the policy that Obama backed brought them through bankruptcy with the government loaning them money.

    Of course Obama himself didn't single-handedly save the company.
  11. 30 Oct '12 19:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Here is a link that has the China connection:

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-to-china/article/2511703

    [b]In a Bloomberg interview, Jeep's president said the automaker plans to restore Jeep production in China, suspended in 2009, and is considering making all Jeeps in China. "Fiat SpA, majority owner of Chr ...[text shortened]... d of both automakers' operations in the region," reported the business wire service.

    [/b]
    That statement doesn't say anything about moving jobs to China - just that they are expanding to make Jeeps in China in order to gain a bigger presence in that market.

    http://news.yahoo.com/chrysler-says-not-moving-jeep-china-u-155207147--sector.html

    "Chrysler in an October 25 blog post had already rejected a statement made that day to a crowd in Ohio by Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, that Chrysler was thinking of moving all Jeep production from Ohio to China.
    Marchionne told employees by email on Tuesday, "I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China.""
  12. 31 Oct '12 00:02
    Hmmm? A lying devious calculating politician. He should do well as President.
  13. 31 Oct '12 00:56
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    That statement doesn't say anything about moving jobs to China - just that they are expanding to make Jeeps in China in order to gain a bigger presence in that market.

    http://news.yahoo.com/chrysler-says-not-moving-jeep-china-u-155207147--sector.html

    "Chrysler in an October 25 blog post had already rejected a statement made that day to a crowd in Oh ...[text shortened]... restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China.""
    It’s gotten worse. From Business Insider:

    Apparently undeterred by the backlash over his false claim that Chrysler is shipping U.S. jobs overseas, Mitt Romney broadened his attack to include General Motors Tuesday. And General Motors was not happy about it.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/romney-gm-lies-ads-2012-10

    BI called GM’s response, reported in the Detroit Free Press (and quoted below), “unsurprisingly . . . swift and harsh”:

    “We've clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days,” GM spokesman Greg Martin said. “No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country.”

    http://www.freep.com/article/20121030/BUSINESS01/121030036/1205/business01/Romney-implies-GM-used-U-S-aid-create-jobs-China
  14. 31 Oct '12 01:34
    Originally posted by vistesd
    It’s gotten worse. From Business Insider:

    Apparently undeterred by the backlash over his false claim that Chrysler is shipping U.S. jobs overseas, Mitt Romney broadened his attack to include General Motors Tuesday. And General Motors was not happy about it.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/romney-gm-lies-ads-2012-10

    BI called GM’s response, r ...[text shortened]... /20121030/BUSINESS01/121030036/1205/business01/Romney-implies-GM-used-U-S-aid-create-jobs-China
    I've often wondered how Michael Moore feels about GM. I mean, he made the movie "Roger and Me" to protest them outsourcing jobs years back. Then we saw his man Obama bail them out.

    Does anyone know how Moore feels about this or the rest of the liberal cronies?
  15. 31 Oct '12 02:39
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Well, the policy that Obama backed brought them through bankruptcy with the government loaning them money.

    Of course Obama himself didn't single-handedly save the company.
    They would have gone through bankruptcy anyhow. The company wasn't saved. The only thing that happened is that a large chunk of the lost money came from the public sector.