Same Old GOP Stuff...Criticize and Obstruct

@shallow-blue said
Sure, but it would have been dishonest. Because it is undeniably true that the Trumpist party obstructs any measure to make this planet a little better.

With mental discipline as to avoid jumping to conclusions and to overcome the normal human propensity for bias that you demonstrate in this post, it's a wonder that you don't convince everyone.

@jimm619 said
What are you Some self appointed 'mental giant?
Most of the informed understand the pros and cons, I will not reiterate them for you.
My observation was mainly this;
I thought that aid to the besieged Ukrainians was
truly an issue that transcended party lines,
but now I notice, Republicans, and only Republicans,
are beginning to balk at BIDEN's aid package...
Kinda' looks like obstructionist efforts to me.

I am vaguely aware that the issue has been in congress and have known that the general public sentiment is to support Ukraine over Russia. As far as the specific pros and cons, I am not keeping up. I'm not here to argue neither "pro" nor "con", but thought someone might take a stab to persuade me rather than just ridicule me.

But I do know that rarely does the general public ever consider any nuances of any issue beyond the talking points of their "team".

You say that most of the "informed" understand the pros and cons. My guess is that even among those that are paying some attention to the issue, the vast majority have not seriously considered the best counter-arguments to their preferred stance.

Here was your chance to gain credibility. If you could have correctly put forth the strongest arguments for the opposing point of view, you'd come across much more persuasive to me. If one of your points is something like "Republicans don't care of people suffer", well I'd say you're only listening to your own side's propaganda.

@techsouth said
You tell me what the difference of opinion is.

Those that have opposed aid to Ukraine, presumably would have given a reason that is something different than "Let's make sure Biden doesn't look good on the world stage".

You might contend they are being disingenuous, but can you, or anyone who has disagreed with the GOP on this issue, present a summary of their argument ...[text shortened]... t tell me what the cons are, even if you don't agree with them, I know you're not a serious thinker.

Hey !! It's your post.
You tell us.

@mghrn55 said
Hey !! It's your post.
You tell us.

As F.D.R said it some 80 years ago,
I paraphrase, 'If your neighbors house is on fire,
you will gladly lend him your garden hose.'

@mghrn55 said
Hey !! It's your post.
You tell us.

It has been asserted here that the only possible reason to oppose the current aid proposal to Ukraine is that you are an obstuctionist.

I suspect that that is not the case, but I have come with an open mind.

If the thread had been something like "GOP opposed aid package to Ukraine - I disagree with their assessment", then the topic would be very different and the only conversation would be whether or not this aid package was a good idea or not. But since it has been brought up as obstructionism, that substantially changes the conversation.

It is my experience that intelligent people have differing opinions on almost any subject of sufficient complexity. For this current issue, I could find myself think something like "I think this aid package is a good idea, but I can see how someone might disagree". In general, I don't automatically presume that anyone who disagrees with me is doing so in bad faith.

So to me, that seems to be the point of this thread, that disagreements to the aid package cannot be done it good faith. Based on other comments directed at me so far, it seems I have correctly divined the point of this thread. The debate about the package itself can hardly be even started without discussing this first important point. As for me, I am not in congress and hence I have no vote, so it hardly matters what I think about the specific content of the aid package. But at this point, I am strongly of the opinion that it is something of which honest men can disagree.

You say it is my post, this is what I want to do with my post. I want to request that those who can't imagine any possible reason to oppose the current aid package to Ukraine to explain to me why they think that no one could do so in good faith.

@techsouth said
No idea what you're talking about. I can't even fathom how one could construe any of my prior arguments to be in favor of rapists. If you think I am Marauder with a new account, consider that I have been a member here since 2005 and have played more than 1000 games.

Ah - so you're also too Republican to recognise sarcasm.

(And yes, providing apologies for Putin's invasion of Ukraine is, in effect, arguing on the side of those who use rape as a weapon of war.)

@techsouth said
I think the title of the thread starts things on the wrong foot.

Had you titled it something like: "GOP has a difference of opinion on Ukraine aid, let's discuss", it may have come across as an attempt to discuss Ukraine aid.

Also, you accuse the GOP of Criticism and Obstruction in the title of the thread, totally missing the irony that you are engaging in criticism d ...[text shortened]... it actually have something to do with Ukraine aid? Those would be too very different conversations.

Not having any luck getting a straight answer? LOL.

Here's a fun little video for some perspective on bipartisan support for Ukraine.

YouTube

Here's another:

YouTube

@shallow-blue said
Ah - so you're also too Republican to recognise sarcasm.

(And yes, providing apologies for Putin's invasion of Ukraine is, in effect, arguing on the side of those who use rape as a weapon of war.)

Can you provide a quote from me that you've taken to be apologist with regards to Putin's invasion?

If you can't provide one, your credibility will diminish.

@suzianne said
Are you, like them, a Russian apologist too?

LOL! I could see this one coming from a few thousand miles away!

One little bit of even a hint of not going whole hog along with every Democrat move, or showing any support, even a sliver, for Republicans, and here comes Suzianne, throwing insults.

Welp...see some of y'all in the Science Forum. Lots less arguing, although, there you'll encounter Suzianne as well, usually bashing somebody for something or other.